Why would a manufacturer be held responsible for a crime committed by a criminal??

We should sue every injection maker for all the deaths doctors cause!

Sue every car manufacturer for every death caused by car accident!

The utter stupidity of the American legal system is unbelievable!

You are absolutely right about that. Lawyers in this country are held in the same esteem as whale poop.

Well I am sure Remington has spent a pile of money defending themselves in court. But so far I think they haven't lost in court.

But I suspect Remington's real financial problems are the same as many US corporations, cheap low cost money from the FED has allowed them to gobble up other companies that they shouldn't have, over pay for it and are loaded with debt.
Did they engage in stock buybacks on credit like so many other corps?

Remington bought Montana Rifle Barrel in Kalispell, MT, closed the Kalispell facility and then moved all the machinery to Alabama as I recall.

I had been to the Kalispell shop a few times, it isn't like they had a pile of machinery Remington was acquiring.

It all made zero sense to me, and still does.

Technically, they aren't supposed to be. Congress passed a law (the PLCAA) years ago that should protect firearms manufacturers from lawsuits like these. Doesn't make any sense that this would be the cause of the bankruptcy.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Why would a manufacturer be held responsible for a crime committed by a criminal??

We should sue every injection maker for all the deaths doctors cause!

Sue every car manufacturer for every death caused by car accident!

The utter stupidity of the American legal system is unbelievable!

"On Remington's possible sale to the Navajo Nation, note that in 2018 the Nation tried to purchase the company and said it would end the sale of AR-15s to consumers, as well as fund "smart gun" research through military and law enforcement sales."

Well maybe the Navaho Nation can return quality to Remington. One less AR maker is no great loss. Our shop stays full of new Remingtons that are train wrecks.

Remington has been poorly managed forever. They had nearly $300 million in debt when they were acquired by Cerberus.

Then they went on a buying spree and incurred even more debt.

I shuddered when they bought Marlin.

And now, not even two years out of Ch. 11, they are heading back in?

What a disaster of a company.

I heard 900 million in debt. They're finished. The custom shop in Sturgis is on furlough for the CV19.
Word on the street isn't good.

I hate to see any firearms mfg. go under on general principles. However if the demise is due to poor business decisions, I may not like it but I can understand. By the same scale, the Fed makes some stupid decisions, yet they are still there. + heaven knows they cost the shareholders (us) a lot of money.

quote:

Lawyers in this country are held in the same esteem as whale poop.

Behind every lawyer is a client. Most in the US being the american people. And they have to work in a system set up by legislatures and congress.
That is who you might want to talk to about the american legal system.

This really sucks (again). I very much like Remington as a brand and the quality of their rifles. I hold the product in high esteem even if the management behind it is inept. I genuinely hope they find a home with someone who can return them to their former glory. Remington should be Remington, and not a bunch of brands under the umbrella. This business of acquiring a ton of companies is greedy and stupid. Why they ever bought not one but TWO AR manufacturers and a BULLET company is beyond me, especially when they already made their own AR's and bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Clayman:
This really sucks (again). I very much like Remington as a brand and the quality of their rifles. I hold the product in high esteem even if the management behind it is inept. I genuinely hope they find a home with someone who can return them to their former glory. Remington should be Remington, and not a bunch of brands under the umbrella. This business of acquiring a ton of companies is greedy and stupid. Why they ever bought not one but TWO AR manufacturers and a BULLET company is beyond me, especially when they already made their own AR's and bullets.

Buying out companies that do the same as the buyer is in many cases, just eliminating competition.

When the bean counters take over a manufacturing company, the quality of the product is sacrificed to monetary returns.

Dave

The big buck guys who buy and sell companies for short term profit are involved in some of this. Profitable companies are bought, the new owners cut cost [often in quality control] to make the ledger sheets look great. They sell the company and move on. Institutional memory and tradition are gone. Consumers [us] move on and that company flounders. some of these CEOs have no clue on the details of running firearms production. Happens often in different industries here.

As for legal systems.... my guess is that no country's legal system would come out squeaky clean under close scrutiny. Legal systems develop thru time, tradition, trial and error.

quote:

Originally posted by RCflash:
The big buck guys who buy and sell companies for short term profit are involved in some of this. Profitable companies are bought, the new owners cut cost [often in quality control] to make the ledger sheets look great. They sell the company and move on. Institutional memory and tradition are gone. Consumers [us] move on and that company flounders. some of these CEOs have no clue on the details of running firearms production. Happens often in different industries here.

As for legal systems.... my guess is that no country's legal system would come out squeaky clean under close scrutiny. Legal systems develop thru time, tradition, trial and error.

Mitt Romney comes to mind. He and his buddies looted, wrecked, and abandoned Dade-Behring.

I wonder how much it would cost to buy Remington now and sell off the unwise acquisitions?

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Well maybe the Navaho Nation can return quality to Remington.

Not sure how someone that can't run a fireworks stand can be expected to run Remington.

Have you ever been on the Navajo Nation?

I’ve asked this several places with no answers. I know that when native tribes operate casinos and sell alcohol and tobacco products they are exempt from some regulation and taxes. If the Navajos buy Remington will the Pitman-Robertson taxes apply? Will the Navajos have to follow Laws like NFA, GCA 1968 etc? Yes I’ve read they said in the past they’d stop selling “assault weapons” if the bought Remington but who knows how accurate that was.

quote:

Not sure how someone that can't run a fireworks stand can be expected to run Remington.

Have you ever been on the Navajo Nation?

Yep. That would be a unmitigated disaster, in my opinion.

marlin? i was ill when they bought H&R!!!!

two (three?) less AR makers - Rem/Bushmaster/DPMS aren't going to break the world, but I do like the DPMS ar10 plaform .

hopefully something good comes out of this .. like excellent m700 and m870, and dropping some non-core platforms

At one point in the 80's Remington was owned by Winchester. The 1880's. Almost the rule rather than the exception with all the gun companies. They have all been on the ropes repeatedly over the years. Govt. contracts being pulled after tooling up, bad management, trying to go into the hardware business, etc, etc. This seems more of the same. Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
Buying out companies that do the same as the buyer is in many cases, just eliminating competition.

Boy, I genuinely hope they weren't trying to do that. I can't imagine a single company "cornering" the AR market these days.

quote:

Originally posted by Ohiosam:
I’ve asked this several places with no answers. I know that when native tribes operate casinos and sell alcohol and tobacco products they are exempt from some regulation and taxes. If the Navajos buy Remington will the Pitman-Robertson taxes apply? Will the Navajos have to follow Laws like NFA, GCA 1968 etc? Yes I’ve read they said in the past they’d stop selling “assault weapons” if the bought Remington but who knows how accurate that was.

Not an attorney nor do I pretent to be. But most of the casino, alcohol, and tobacco tax stuff is on a state level. Firearms are federal, maybe they would?

quote:

The utter stupidity of the American legal system is unbelievable!

Yep, and getting worse all of the time.