Gentlemen

I have the equipment but never tired using Solder for sights and sling bands. I have a few bits and pieces cut up to practice on before I have a go at putting a barrel band and front banded sight on one of my rifles.

I think I have the basic routine right, but I am worried about overheating the barrel and making it soft.

Firstly, Is overheating the barrel and ruining the barrel possible ? Or am I just over worrying here.

Secondly can you have too much solder in place ? and do you apply a thin film to both the barrel and the band ?

Thirdly what do you use to clean and or limit the mess on the barrel afterwards

Any reading or a walk thru that you could recommend on doing this with barrels

regards
S&F

If you have some free time, click this link and read what has already been written about it (A bit):

http://forums.accuratereloadin...&forum_scope=9411043

S&F, give me a call.

Paz

Edit-Never mind, i called you

I use it all the time; great stuff and no worry about over-heat. Just make sure you use the correct flux (comet) and make sure everything is clean.

Thanx Mark the link to the information is just what I needed, keep forgetting we can use that

Jim thanx for the vote of confidence, just what I needed to have a go.

There is one question I didn't find an answer to:

If you pre flux and pre solder the inside of the band, how do you slide the band up the barrel to the correct position, surely the uneven blobs of PRE soldering will reduce the inside diameter and stop the band from sliding up to the correct position

regards
S&F

I think you are mistaking the "pre-soldering" with tinning. You don't need to "tin" the inside of the sight band, just make sure to apply the correct flux, fit it in place and heat until the solder gets sucked into the sight/barrel joint.

if using Comet flux, be certain to "kill" it with baking soda/water, then wash it in hot water and soap, then rinse, then oil

do NOT quench it ...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
if using Comet flux, be certain to "kill" it with baking soda/water, then wash it in hot water and soap, then rinse, then oil

do NOT quench it ...

And that would be.....

After you do the solder job, not before. I would think that would be obvious.

One other thing, this flux is very corrosive and will remove any blueing it comes in contact with.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

fit it in place and heat until the solder gets sucked into the sight/barrel joint.

I have always wondered about this: how in the world can you possibly clean all the solder from outside the joint so that it will take rust bluing and not leave a silver ring where the band meets the barrel?

I'm just asking because I don't know(not trying to be a wise-acre).

Jason,
you can't .. you can come close .. i think, but haven't tried, peening metal over? okay, that sounded dumber as a read it ..

there's a solder black.. that is more grey, that i've used before .. but I don't rust blue anymore .. i plumbrown, then boil .. ONCE ..

a friend wanted to rust blue, in this situation, and it never looked perfect .. looked okay, but never perfect. with the solder blackening ... i have forgotten what it was.. might be because i hated the project by that time.

If you have a good fit of the metal parts before soldering, you will be OK. It all depends on your ability to get a good fit. For a band, drive it farther on the barrel a things are heated and tinned. You can use brass rods or other shapes that are filed to a sharp edge for clean up. I have some engraving tools that i often used. I think the main one is what an engraver calls an "onglett" but that is irrelevent. Sharpen it up and use magnification and you can really clean to the edge of the joint.

I have a couple of buddies who use a buffer to get solder off, but I never have been able to make it work. I am talking about little buffing wheels on a dremel tool.

The good ones don't have a lot of excess solder to clean up. I wind up having it from muzzle to rear tang screw, and from my hair down to my boots. I might have a lot of clean up to do, but by God those parts are stuck together good!

Here is another way that I have not tried; heard it from a well respected smith.

A lot of my bluing is the matte finish. When bead or grit blasting, the sloder is soft enough and wiil come off with the blasting.

Or, you can try #271 Loctite.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

fit it in place and heat until the solder gets sucked into the sight/barrel joint.

I have always wondered about this: how in the world can you possibly clean all the solder from outside the joint so that it will take rust bluing and not leave a silver ring where the band meets the barrel?

I'm just asking because I don't know(not trying to be a wise-acre).

When you are tinning the barrel, just flux and tin an area a little smaller than the band. While the solder is still molten, direct a blast of compressed air to the joint line to blow out any exposed solder. This will leave a shadow line that won't show the solder.

@ Jeffe, Marc, Jim and Bob

I had to read this thread about a dozen times(I'm a bit slow) but I think I get it....

So, because you only flux under the band, the solder will not stick to visable areas of the band and barrel. So the key is to be careful where you apply the flux. Is this correct?

You cannot just flux a part; the flux is runny, a liquid, and will run all over everything. The advice about the tinning is good advice. If you tin the areas where you want the solder,and flux that before assembly, the solder will probably adhere to only that portion. As in any job you do, cleanup is always a must.

The flux is necessary for eveyrthing you want soldered. The flux is an acid and it etches the steel. What the solder does is flow into the pores of the steel that were opened up by the etch. When you have a tight fit of 2 metal parts that have been fluxed and tinned, and had solder sucked into the joint when in place, the solder flows into the pores of both pieces of steel. When cool, it is one solid piece of solder with "tenticles" that have flowed into each piece. Imagine the metal pieces being two pieces of Swiss cheese that are fit together. The solder flows into the holes in the pieces of cheese and when it cools the pieces are now locked together.

The strength of such a joint depends on the original fit of the pieces, the composition of the solder used, and how well the soldering job was performed. High temp silver solders are actually "silver braze" and are very strong, as the melting temp goes down, the strength goes down. Hi Force 44 solder is plenty srtong enough for anything you would want to stick to a rifle barrel.

On a barrel for say a sling swivel band, i would polish the area a little and then flux it. I would flux the inside of the band. When cool I would drive it onto the barrel, but it is going to stop a little farther down the tube because of the tin job. Heat the barrel and wipe the band with the flame as well. When the solder melts i would drive the band a little farther down the barrel than it was before I tinned it. I would then have the barrel pointing up and have the flame on the barrel below the band. Then I would feed more solder wire into the top of the joint. the heat sucks it in, ensuring there is a very good covereage with the sodler.

I have soldered quarter ribs, barrel bands, front sights (banded and plain ramps), and island bases. When i have a good fit and good clean up job, you cannot see any solder at all when the rifle is finished. It all depends on your skill at fitting two pieces of metal together. Have a poor fit and a solder line will show. The size of the solder line showing gets larger as your skill at fitting metal together gets lower. It is all about taking time to smoke and scrape, smoke and scrape, smoke and scrape until it is right.

Thank-you Marc

And you confirmed my thoughts that the band will not slide down to the prepare area because of the tinning inside the band.

So when we prepaid the barrel, sounds like I need to flux a slightly bigger area than planned, Incase the band doesn't quit make it to the desired spot. Then when cool a Sharp mild steel scraper should remove the excess, then polish or sandblast.

The key is to be sure it goes in the right spot. When the solder melts, you can push it closer to the receiver. I drive it a skosh farther up the barrel towards the receiver than the final spot the band would fit before being tinned. I use a brass bar and light taps. If after the solder cools you have the band nearer the muzzle than it would fit before you tinned it, then you are guranteed a solder line that will show.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
Imagine the metal pieces being two pieces of Swiss cheese that are fit together. The solder flows into the holes in the pieces of cheese and when it cools the pieces are now locked together.

Thanks to all who did their best to explain the process. I think I do understand enough now to know that I would leave a huge solder line no matter what I did.....

The real black magic is in the fact that you riflesmiths can clean the metal well enough(an have a small enough line to start with) that the solder down in the pores does not show.

I guess that is why you guys make the big bucks.

Brownell's sells a soapstone-like stick that supposedly, when rubbed onto steel, will prevent the solder from sticking. I've never used it and so can't comment.

Anyone?
Regards, Joe