quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
BULLSHIT!

I worked for the government for 30+ years and believe me, the agent is only trying to cover his ass. Have him call his headquarter's office and make them show him the regulation requiring it.

Absolutely! I have purchased several arms in the last twoyears from auction sites via a local FFL holder, and I know he has not asked for or received a copy of any FFL from an aout-of-state licensee - as a matter of fact, at least one of these guns was sent to him by a plain old gun owner who sold it.

Jeez,

You guys are dense. It don't matter if the law requires it or not. The fact is, the law doesn't specifically say that some one cannot request the sender's FFL. As such, the ATF doesn't care.

It can be a real pain in the arse to be sure but hey, these are the times we live in.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
BULLSHIT!

I worked for the government for 30+ years and believe me, the agent is only trying to cover his ass. Have him call his headquarter's office and make them show him the regulation requiring it.

Absolutely! I have purchased several arms in the last twoyears from auction sites via a local FFL holder, and I know he has not asked for or received a copy of any FFL from an aout-of-state licensee - as a matter of fact, at least one of these guns was sent to him by a plain old gun owner who sold it.

It is not a question of me being a hard ass. It is a question of privacy. I don't want just anyone holding a copy of my license to do what ever he wishes with it.

Here is a guy who, for whatever reason would not give a copy of his license to the buyer but insisted he get my Fax number so he could fax it to me. What the hell is with that.

I did forward a copy of my FFL via the internet, to the buyer with instructions to only show it to the other dealer so he could verify all the info. He was shown the copy and still refused to deliver it.

I"m calling the ATF in Helena first thing Monday

Jim,
Fax him a copy of your drivers license to use for the verification of the person selling the gun. All he needs is a verification and yes it is not required but it is often advised that the origin has some verification. And do not worry about anyone trying to use your ugly puss as their ID.

This is a copy from Stiller's Site.

The ATF now allows faxing of FFL and so do we. Our fax is XXX XXX-XXXX. Please write the number and exp date below the reverse printed numbers if it is the old small size FFL. We have to be able to read it. Also, all dealers put on your PHONE NUMBER. We need it for our air bills. Some of our dealers are also stating that they NEED our FFL to give you the actions. IF they do, it is their policy, not the ATF's, even though they may think it is. We will fax or ship our copy if requested.


Another vote that it is the dealer not the ATF.

quote:

Originally posted by Blueprinted:
This is a copy from Stiller's Site.

The ATF now allows faxing of FFL and so do we. Our fax is XXX XXX-XXXX. Please write the number and exp date below the reverse printed numbers if it is the old small size FFL. We have to be able to read it. Also, all dealers put on your PHONE NUMBER. We need it for our air bills. Some of our dealers are also stating that they NEED our FFL to give you the actions. IF they do, it is their policy, not the ATF's, even though they may think it is. We will fax or ship our copy if requested.


Another vote that it is the dealer not the ATF.

It is also now acceptable to receive a scanned PDF document of your FFL, not just a fax.
We just got notified of this about 3 weeks ago.

Where I see a problem is the receiving dealer threatening to turn the firearm into the ATF as an "untraceable firearm"

I personally would regard that as a terroristic threat and consider it an ultimatum with only one outcome, my declaring WAR on that person, war waged by any means necissary.

I would immediatly complain to the ATF that this other dealer has STOLEN the firearm.

Much as I would hate to be on the receiving end of an AFT investigation team visiting me it really sounds like having them crawl up this SOB's asshole with a microscope is just the very thing that needs to happen.

I would also disclose that dealers name so we all know not to deal with the SOB, sounds like he is deserving of unemployment/bankrupcy and general misery

Not for having a cautious policy, that would be understandable, BUT any understanding due him for being cautious ended when HE invoked the idea of turning the rifle into the ATF as "untraceable".
That is tantamount to his threatening to DESTROY the rifle.


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quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
I personally would regard that as a terroristic threat and consider it an ultimatum with only one outcome, my declaring WAR on that person, war waged by any means necissary.

That bad huh?

quote:

I"m calling the ATF in Helena first thing Monday

Jim, is the dealer in Helena, Mt. ? If so I can probably guess who it is.

Don't you just hate dealing with idiots?

I had a FFL until I gave it up a year and a half ago because it wasn't worth it for me to keep with the constant veiled threats from the ATF and bullshit like this. I didn't sell enough guns to make any money at it so it wasn't worth it to me to put up this stuff.

As pointed out before, there's no requirement for him to have a copy of your FFL. In fact, it doesn't matter whether or not the gun came from a FFL holder, a regular citizen could have sent him the gun for transfer and his procedure is exactly the same, enter it into his book, complete the 4473, and do the background check. It doesn't matter where it came from. Evidently this clown thinks (incorrectly) that he knows the law judging by his threat to turn the gun over to the ATF. I wonder what the local ATF agent will do when this guy tries to turn over a gun that's been transferred from you to him legally? Hopefully the ATF will berate him for the idiot he is, but you never know with those guys. This guy needs to either do the transfer to your client or return the gun to you. If he does otherwise with it I feel you'd be perfectly within your rights to declare the gun stolen and pursue charges against him.

As a final note, the situation resolved itself. The offending dealer simply accessed the ATF EZ-check and determined I was in fact, a valid dealer. What an idiot, or was it just paranoia?

Thanks to all who verified what I thought was correct and allowed me to vent.

Jim