How can you tell if it's "safe" to load a claw extractor-equipped rifle by dropping a round into the chamber and closing the bolt? Or is this a no-no for ANY such rifle?

What is the extent of the damage that could be done?

Can a modern CZ-actioned rifle be loaded that way?

Thanks for any information,
desmobob

Most of my MKX/Daly actions can handle a round dropped into the chamber. I have altered most of my 98 to allow it. "Just in case"

That said I normally don't do it. What you are doing is forcing the front of the extractor to bend to the right and then snap back. If you look at a M98 there is very little if any slope to the edge of the extractor. The MKXs extractor has a slope cut to it. This will wedge the extractor over as you force the bolt closed. This slope also causes the business portion of the extractor to be thinner.

As to the CZ action I have no experience.

I believe I've loaded my 527 as a single.

Just MHO but if you can load a single round EASILY with a CRF rifle you are okay...as in the round goes into the chamber no fuss, no extra pressure with the extractor happily snapping over the rim.

With my CZ 550 Mags and my RSMs they will NOT top feed happily on their own, but I use the old technique of "pinching" or squeezing the extractor body midway along the bolt and this allows the "hook" to glide over the rim. For a full load fill the mag, push down the cartridges in the mag a little while working the bolt slightly forward over the mag rounds. Drop your "top off" cartridge into the action and while pinching the extractor body work the bolt forward to chamber the "top off" round. Is much easier than it sounds and I don't believe this is bad for the rifle, but YMMV. I use this all the time on my RSMs when the ground squirrels are getting dangerous

John

quote:

but I use the old technique of "pinching" or squeezing the extractor body midway along the bolt and this allows the "hook" to glide over the rim

JKS I agree with you do it like it was designed to be done. That is far easier on all the pieces.

quote:

Originally posted by desmobob900ss:
Can a modern CZ-actioned rifle be loaded that way

In case you haven't already guessed, I'm asking the question because I recently purchased a new CZ550 and have single-loaded it a lot. I did it the whole time I was doing load development; probably well over 100 rounds.

I have several rifles but my only bolt actions are a SMLE and a post-'64 Winchester Model 70. The CZ is my first claw extractor-equipped rifle. I recently read something about not single loading such a rifle and it made me wonder if I may have damaged or weakened it in some way.

I was pretty sure the instructions didn't have any warning about single loading it. I checked to be sure: "Loading is also possible for single cartridges by directly inserting into the chamber without the use of a magazine." I'm guessing it's safe to do with this rifle. I didn't notice any difficulty closing the bolt when single loading into the chamber.

What is the alteration done to a traditional Mauser 98 action to allow this... beveling the front edge of the extractor hook?

The hook on my CZ is beveled (if that's the correct word) and sort of cut on a curve, so it looks like it would ride up over the cartridge rim without undue stress.

Thanks for the responses,
desmobob

I would be willing to bet real money (at least a $1) That the 550 will handle a single round just fine.

Like I said the MKX/Daly are. As to M98 if you see the edge of the extractor where it grabs the rim it will be pretty much squared off with a little rounding. The MKX or M98 that are converted have a taper ground into the edge. Allows the case rim to force the extractor over as the bolt closes.

Like I said I don't do my that way. But my old boss has a MKX that I built for him 20+ years ago and I know he ALWAYS loads that way. He has never had a problem.

What's wrong with just doing it correctly?

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
What's wrong with just doing it correctly?

That was sort of the point of the question, really. What IS correct for my rifle?


For my CZ action, laying a single round on the follower and sending it home with the bolt is considered "correct," according to the manufacturer's instructions. And it's quicker and easier than either pushing each single-loaded round down into the magazine or squeezing the middle of the extractor to get the claw around each single-loaded cartridge rim.

Most importantly to me, it's the same way I'm used to loading single rounds in my other rifles. If I DID have to put each single round down into the magazine, that's no big deal. But the odds are very good I'd forget it needed to be done on this particular rifle at some point. I'm glad to find out I wouldn't cause any damage in that event.

Good shooting,
desmobob

You should be able to single load a cartridge on top of the follower and send it home. But, I'd be concerned that making it a habit over time may prematurely get the extractor out of spec. I have better piece of mind when I make a habit of single loading out of the mag box while save dropping a round directly into the chamber for when needed.

GVA

In my CZ manual it states "Open the bolt by raising the handle and pulling it to the rear to its stop. Place a cartridge on the follower and press it downward into the magazine box." And so on. It doesn't say anything about single loading. My manual is an older one so they could have added something about single loading.
I have a Model 70 that is a variant of the Mauser action and it has a chipped up extractor from this very practice. My idea of the correct loading procedure for a Mauser style action is different than most. I load only from the magazine the first round and then put the rifle on full safe. Then I open the magazine box and dump the remainder of the rounds in the mag box and make sure the stagger is correct. Then shut the floorplate and am ready to shoot with a full boat. To each his own. Extractors aren't cheap as you should have a smith fit it to ensure correct extraction and fit to the case rim.
You could do it 100 times by just laying it on the follower and closing the bolt and have no problems, but it just takes once to chip up your extractor. I call it correct gun handling.
This argument falls right in there with the correct use of the three position safety. JMHO

quote:

My manual is an older one so they could have added something about single loading.

The manual that can be download from their site reads exactly like you stated.

Pegleg years ago I loaded just like you talked about. So I could get that extra round in the rifle. That one was my first M98 and it had not been converted. When I couldn't remember ever needing that extra round I got lazy and only load what the mag will hold.

On my winchester 375H&H, the book states as the CZ does, but when I single load I always do it form the magazine. I also can fit 4 in the thing easily without snaping the extractor by loading three, then putting onbe on top, holding it down with my left hand (while cradling the thing) and then puhing the bolt forward. I can shoot the four rounds, then while running perform this action to load another 4 (yes I practice this) and never have once 'snapped' the extractor. While I would like ot to carry 5 rounds i'll live with this method.

_Baxter

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

My manual is an older one so they could have added something about single loading.

The manual that can be download from their site reads exactly like you stated.

"Loading is also possible for single cartridges by directly inserting into the chamber without the use of a magazine" is a direct quote from my CZ 550 manual.

While it certainly seems this is not the best way, the manufacturer does not warn against it....

Thanks again for all the replies,
desmobob

IMO, the rifle should be capable of closing the bolt over a round in the chamber, but when loading single rounds at the range there is no point. Just load the rifle from the magazine.

To me the only reasons to be capable of closing the bolt over a single round is to increase the number of rounds in the rilfe by one, if you feel the need, or in a dangerous or emergency situation when it would be faster to reload the rifle with a single round by throwing the cartridge into the chamber and slamming the bolt closed, as opposed to loading the single round into the magazine and then feeding it into the chamber by closing the bolt.

quote:

"Loading is also possible for single cartridges by directly inserting into the chamber without the use of a magazine" is a direct quote from my CZ 550 manual.

While it certainly seems this is not the best way, the manufacturer does not warn against it....

You are correct on their site that wording does show on the 550 manual download. It is in the "loading" section for "removable magazine". It is listed as a note. Going to the next section which is for "non removable magazines" that note is left off. My first reference to the CZ manual was from the 550med & magnum manual. The note doesn't appear I assume because they are all non removable magazines.

Reading that my simple mind says CZ says you can load single for the removable mag and from the magazine for the non removable. I would also bet the extractor for the detachable and non-detachables are the same. I must have missed the fact you were using a removable magazine.

As I and several have said you probably can load either CZs single and not hurt your rifle. I always stick my round in the magazine.

the "correct" way to load a CRF (say mauser ehre) is okay... but VERY difficult if you have a scope on the rifle.

it's about 20 mins of works for a person who knows what they are doing

it COULD be the difference between having a shot ready (from an empty rifle) or not

should you do this all the time? no, not really
jeffe

Ah, the benifits of a PF surface now and then.

But some wise sage wrote never to muck around loading that extra round on a DG rifle, as, from habit, you'd be bound to try it when things were a bit dodgy. Best he reckoned to always load from the mag.