I've been looking for a larger lathe to replace my current Atlas model. Being in the South cuts down on availability of a nice 13x40 being found locally and shipping ruins a good deal on any five states away. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new Grizzly G0824 13x40 with DRO. Anyone here have any experience with one?

I don't have a Grizzly. I did find a great used 14x40 that was made in Taiwan. If you can find one made there the quality is better than the Chinese lathes. I have a Precision Matthews mill that is very nice. I've heard good things about their lathes as well.

http://www.precisionmatthews.c...uct-category/lathes/

We have a Grizzly 13X40 lathe that we have used to build a couple of rifles and a bunch of dozer and track hoe pins etc. Where I used to work we had Hardinge and other top end equipment and the Grizzly is not in that class. The dials do read correctly but nothing is as smooth as it could be. I have heard you can polish the gears and that helps alot but who has that kind of time. One plus is they will cut Standard and Metric threads. We have probably had ours 15 years and it still runs just fine; no problems at all. Ours does not have the DRO. I wish we had a collet closer on ours, working on that.

I did make a spider to hold the barrel in the tail end of the headstock.

For the price we would purchase again.

Hope this helps. If you need anything specific let me know.

God Bless, Louis

I have been using the 14x40 G0709 I believe for about two years.......it does everything i have needed.

.

if you want a grizzly, i suggest review of their gunsmith models

We have a big Grizzly lathe in our shop that gets used daily.

Not bad at all for the money IMO

The only downside is the Colchester gear box that is normally found in those lathes. Most gunsmith threading is all one off threads and you never seem to cut the same thread twice in a row. With the Colchester transmission you have to pull the back cover off and do manual gear changes for just about every different pitch you cut. I have a Yangzhou with that gearbox and it's fine for turning. Threading on it is a royal pain in the ass.
I also have another Taiwanese clone with a Southbend gearbox, which selects all thread pitches directly from the transmission with no gear changes. For metric you have to flip over the 120/127 cluster. I use that machine for 99% of my threading. If you can only afford one machine, the Southbend style gearbox is a real time saver and it's much easier for the novice to run. But if you only cut a thread or two a month the Colchester is fine. Just sayin.

I just had a quick look and Grizzly doesn't offer a reasonable machine in the Southbend gearbox. BASTARDS !

Thanks. This is one of their newer models with a 2" spindle bore and comes equipped with a spider. I'd love a Bridgeport or Clausing but I'd have a better chance of finding a dinosaur in my back yard. For the price I think it will do all I need it to.

Well, the 2 inch spindle and swing is neither here, nor there. What's important is to have 40 inch centers to allow you work between centers for barrel & chamber work, turning barrels and brake installation. With a shorter machine you are forever dialing in this and trying to bastardize that. They offer a 36 inch machine with a Southbend gearbox but it's only 36 inch which is forever being just, THIS MUCH () to short! You'll hate yourself if you settle for less than 40 inch

I just went through a similar decision. After all my research I decided on a Taiwan made Precision Matthews 1340GT three phase with VFD so I can run it off single phase 220. This is my first lathe and all-in it’s about $7500k shipped. That includes 3 and 4 jaw chucks, live center, faceplate, quick change toolpost, drill chuck, etc., and a couple tooling sets. I should have it in a month.

Realize I have zero lathe experience so all I can offer is the results of my research. The consensus seems to be the Chinese made lathes like the Grizzly gunsmith lathes work well enough and can make very good chambers. It has more to do with the lathe operator than the lathe anyway.

However, a Taiwan made lathe is much smoother and easier to work with and is higher quality overall. I decided that was worth the extra one-third in cost, especially since I will get 25 years use out of it.

I’ll be sure to post my experiences here so the old man gunsmiths can get a chuckle and the newbys can see what it’s like to start from zero.....

I have a Grizzly its about 12 years old now and still works fine. The only problem I had was the motor went south, but Grizzly replaced it no charge. Mine has the gear box no belts.

I've haad a 4003 Griz since 2000...it was the cheapest 12x36 gear head I could find and the lightest at 1000 lbs. Don't know where it was built but you will have some problems with stiffness, or lack thereof, in the lathes in this class....you learn how to overcome some of them and just deal with those you can't readily fix. It doesn't have the best head bearings but it seems to get things done at a reasonable amount of run-out...much of the work I do is of the "good'n'uff variety except for chambers, M.B.'s and things of that nature.

I ground the jaws on the 3 jaw so now I have just a tiny flutter in a 0.0001" indicator using a 1/2" drill rod. It's setting on a wood floor on a VERY HEAVY table and I still have to re-level at least once every year and I check it whenever I'm doing something tetchy.

AND I reset/test the tailstock EVERY TIME I want to do a chamber or muzzle brake...Best to beg, borrow or buy a nice 1/2"- 3/4" piece of polished rod to use to keep the tailstock squared away and do a check before doing any precision work...it doesn't tale long. I found a 1 1/8" hunk of hydraulic cylinder rod way back I had a friend put centers in and check for straightness on a very expensive, fancy, hi precision aerospace part producing lathe back in the late 60's, I used it on every lathe I used before doing any precision work, just to be sure.

All the travel screws are totally loosy-goosy...I continually loosen/tighten the gibs and lock screws and slather on the way oil to keep the sticktion from mucking up any long turnings on barrel tapering and such....YOU HAVE TO LEARN the vagaries of YOUR lathe and they ALL have peccadilloes.

Grizzly's Bossman does a good job of selling and did a VERY good job with his shooter taking the medals so you can't go too wrong buying one...just understand you will need to learn a great deal not only about working the lathe but also HOW to correct the nuances that come with using precision machinery...LOTS of good YOU-TOOB stuff, but be careful...EVERYBODY and their cousins want to produce movies...some are excellent and some...well aren't.

If I were to buy another lathe today I would get one with some weight...3-6000 lbs means lots of metal and lots of stiffness which translates into higher precision and many extra goodies.

GET a taper attachment AND collet closer...a 6 jaw chuck is also a VERY nice addition and are usually higher precision than the normally attendant 3 jaw...I just received my new 5C collet closer and 6 jaw and now that the weather has decided to cooperate I will get the 6 jaw installed some time this week so I will be ready for my new 7mm, 32", soon to be 28 Nosler...

You will get good value from the Grizzly you are contemplating...I got my new 2018 Grizz catalog a couple weeks ago and checked out the lathes and mills first thing...that lathe and the South bend 14 x 40 220v(at 3 times the Grizz price) was right at the top of my "that's the one" list if I were to buy now.

Practical Machinist is a good place for general, specific and some gunsmithing information/questions.

Good Luck

about the only time I have to change the gears is when I do mausers threads, all else so far is just shifting gears.


.

I can not wrap my brain around buying new equipment. I bought my lathe with a whole bunch of other stuff, sold off what I did not need and ended up with an excellent Taiwan built Victor gear head lathe and bunches of other stuff for pretty much zero dollars out of pocket. The Victor has been an excellent worry free machine for the last 15 years for me. Learn how to shop for used equipment and you will be miles ahead. Shipping is not that costly. I sent a huge CNC lathe to the East Coast from Colorado for 800$.

Gentlemen, Check out the Practical Machinist web site. They are a good source of used tooling and equipment and have an interesting gunsmithing forum.
Best.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I can not wrap my brain around buying new equipment. I bought my lathe with a whole bunch of other stuff, sold off what I did not need and ended up with an excellent Taiwan built Victor gear head lathe and bunches of other stuff for pretty much zero dollars out of pocket. The Victor has been an excellent worry free machine for the last 15 years for me. Learn how to shop for used equipment and you will be miles ahead. Shipping is not that costly. I sent a huge CNC lathe to the East Coast from Colorado for 800$.

Except you MUST know what you are doing when buying a used lathe. If you don’t, buying used is a can of snakes. A friend at work has a handful of used lathes and mills he got good deals on—except for shipping. One lathe cost him $800 to buy and $2000 to ship, and it doesn’t even run. In fact NONE of his stuff works. His goal is to get one of his Mills up and running so he can make parts to fix the others.

So if your hobby is fixing machine tools, like my friend, maybe used is okay. If you have experience with lathes and machine tools and know what to look for and what to avoid, used is okay. However, if you want a minimum amount of fuss starting something you have little experience with, buy a quality NEW tool/machine is the way to go. In fact, that applies to most things.......

I bought a Grizzly G4003G in 2007 and used it for over 10 years. First thing i had to clean filings and crap out of the headstock. After that, despite some already discussed shortcomings it was very useful and very good for barrels through the headstock. I like the built in spider screws. I spent some time getting the headstock bearings adjusted properly(they are Japanese NSK's) and with a Bison Set Tru adjustable chuck I was easily able to center stuff to within .0001 or. 0002. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

Machine equipment is not that complicated. If you are going to own it, you might as well take the time to learn how to maintain it. Once you know a bit about it then it is not hard to make good choices on what to buy. I do not spend much time working on my machines. Even when I do I try to make it quick and cheap. I rebuilt my old J head Bridgeport X feed a few years ago. Brand new lead screw on ebay, new bearing and bronze nut, under 200$ and 1/2 day of labor. Bought my Haas used but from the local distributor for less than 1/2 of a new one. Saved about 25K. It is easier for me to educate myself about a subject and buy used than pay big bucks for new. I have owned exactly one new gun in my life, a gift from my father at age 14. Cars, guns, machine equip all better bought used with a bit knowledge on what you are purchasing in my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by 50 Calshtr:
Gentlemen, Check out the Practical Machinist web site. They are a good source of used tooling and equipment and have an interesting gunsmithing forum.
Best.

I would be very careful about bringing up Asian machines or can openers like we use in the Practical Machinist forum. If you mention them in the general forums they generally kick you out as the owner of the site has a very strict (NO ASIAN MACHINE DISCUSSIONS) rule. The Gunsmithing forum has an exception to that rule, but most of the time if you bring up Asian machines or can opener machines about 6 guys will jump on you and roast the ever-living-shit out of you!

Govern yourself accordingly.

These are the Practical Machinist rules:

Note this is the is the Manufacturing Forum, not the home shop machinist forum. And while all levels of "how to" metalworking or woodworking questions regarding technique are welcome here, we are drawing the line at discussing manual "home shop grade" Asian machine tools and hand tools.

Note I said "home shop grade" Larger and/or higher quality Asian machines that might be used in manufacturing or job shop setting are ok to discuss.

The discouragement of HSM grade Asian machine discussion is partially because they have all ready been discussed to death here, and partically because they are not used (or at shouldn't be) in any manufacturing/job shop envirnoments.

For these machines, there are other sites such as the HSM Magazine forum, Chaski forum and various Yahoo Groups that are more appropriate.

========================

UPDATE-

Also not allowed for discussions on PM now-

*Atlas/ Craftsman/Dunlap products - anywhere

*Sherline and Taig - anywhere, including CNC versions

*Hacksaws- anywhere

*Horizontal shapers - Antique Machinery forum only

Last edited by Milacron; 01-31-2013 at 10:35 PM.

So what determines "home shop grade?" Size? Price? Features? Maybe gross weight? No cnc ability?
I can certainly identify hsm stuff for the most part, but there are machines that may be borderline for one reason or another, and then does it boil down to just plain snobbery, or what?
Iirc , a lot of the old South Bends were considered hobby lathes more than anything else but when someone today mentions that shouts of, "Sacrilege" ring out....

Being old, retired on a fixed income and being a junk yard dog anyway...IF I want to do something I go cheap because I can't afford fancy. "I" didn't buy the 4003 Griz...I did some swapping around and another person bought it and had it shipped to my garage in exchange...otherwise I probably wouldn't have one now. This lathe has lasted me for 18 years..need new travel screws, cross feed table scrapped, bearings replaced etc...but I can buy a new one much cheaper with much higher quality pieces and parts and fancy doodads, But this one just keeps turning out barrels and other turnings so why waste money...I DEFINITELY won't be around another 18 years to wear one out.

I've also found that no matter WHAT FORUM you go to there are ALWAYS, Guru's, Experts and Elitists. Many/most are extremely knowledgeable, are worth listening to even if they are in love with themselves and won't hardly listen to others...we are just human...many got "lost in the 50's tonight" ...stuck in some time frame.

I got bit by P.M. early on and a couple of other "elitist" forums/poster Expert/Gurus/rectal apertures...so quit asking questions and/or stopped saying the brand.

You have to learn to cut through the KRAP and extract the Filet Mignon which takes a while.

A ton of "stuff" has changed since the end of WWII and all those Heavy 10's were available for chump change...and remember those "cheap Chinese knockoffs" are built nowadays with the same CNC machinery and machinists that those "high dollar" machines were built with...and ever bit as qualified as those machinists in other countries...JUST with a smaller pay check and " little, if any Bennies". IF they couldn't compete the businesses would go tit'sup.s It really amazes me that there are so MANY lathe producers today, from almost EVERY country in the world.

Think about it...you might not like it but it has been here for a long time and isn't going away any time soon..if ever.

Good Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by H47:
So what determines "home shop grade?" Size? Price? Features? Maybe gross weight? No cnc ability?
I can certainly identify hsm stuff for the most part, but there are machines that may be borderline for one reason or another, and then does it boil down to just plain snobbery, or what?
Iirc , a lot of the old South Bends were considered hobby lathes more than anything else but when someone today mentions that shouts of, "Sacrilege" ring out....

I dunno. I never made the rules and I seldom look at that forum anymore. I was a bit of an ass the last time I posted there so I may not be that welcome anymore. I was just letting the OP know what he could expect.
I did a search and this was the last Grizzly thread there:

http://www.practicalmachinist....y-mini-lathe-344888/

I agree. That one is definitely ham. I see what u mean.

The Hobby Machinist Forum seems like a good resource. Again, I don’t know enough to evaluate the advice given there, but they are very welcoming of people at all levels discussing their Asian lathes and mills.

I've been wanting to upgrade for a while. I have a 36" Atlas lathe and as Speerchucker says, it makes chambering fun with the tailstock almost dangling off the bed. I don't have the time or want to go look at and try out older lathes and figure out why they are being sold (usually worn out or sway backed on the bed). I have a Bridgeport mill that I bought used locally twenty years ago when a local machine shop upgraded and it really needs to be redone now. I've been limping along with it because it still works for me...I know its ideosynchrocies. I think the Grizzly and what it includes is just the way for me to go.

Buying used is always the cheapest way to go and as long as you already have machines and you're adapt enough to make any parts you need, the only things that you really need to worry about is the bed and the lead screw and even lead screw material can be bought bulk or you can turn one if you have a longer machine than the one you're rebuilding.
But I don't think I have ever heard anybody say: "I wish I had bought that old worn out machine and spent a week or two rebuilding it instead of this brand new machine with the warranty!"

Well, maybe a couple of really cheap, whiny fawkers !

I went through this exercise a few years ago. I loved the idea of buying "American iron" but I wanted to build rifles, not rebuild a lathe. Additionally, the logistics of getting a used lathe to my house were pretty daunting.

I bought a Grizzly 14x40 "Gunsmithing lathe". You get what you pay for. The lathe had some significant vibration problems that, after months of tinkering, I finally diagnosed as being cause by "memory" on the drive belts-- a set of v-belts solved that problem.

The chucks that it came with were junk so I invested in two Bison chucks. I also bought and installed a Dropros DRO. The cast piece that rode under the ways to allow the tailstock to torque down broke in half in the middle of a chambering job and I had to make a replacement on the mill.

After working with it for a couple of years and making numerous tweaks-- it works fine and I've built some pretty accurate rifles with it. That said, I would have bought a different lathe if I were going to do it over again.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
I went through this exercise a few years ago. I loved the idea of buying "American iron" but I wanted to build rifles, not rebuild a lathe. Additionally, the logistics of getting a used lathe to my house were pretty daunting.

I bought a Grizzly 14x40 "Gunsmithing lathe". You get what you pay for. The lathe had some significant vibration problems that, after months of tinkering, I finally diagnosed as being cause by "memory" on the drive belts-- a set of v-belts solved that problem.

The chucks that it came with were junk so I invested in two Bison chucks. I also bought and installed a Dropros DRO. The cast piece that rode under the ways to allow the tailstock to torque down broke in half in the middle of a chambering job and I had to make a replacement on the mill.

After working with it for a couple of years and making numerous tweaks-- it works fine and I've built some pretty accurate rifles with it. That said, I would have bought a different lathe if I were going to do it over again.

A couple things I have done over the years. Way back 20 years ago I helped a buddy move in a huge industrial table saw into his shop. The thing weighed close to a ton and had computerized feed, blade height, angle and a whole bunch of other neat stuff. It was like, Godzilla fucked Black & Decker and that thing came out. After we got it in he told one of the employees to get the pruning sheers and cut the 5 belts off and install new ones. Of course I had to know what that was all about and he explained that they used Link Belts instead of the regular black rubber/cloth V belts to take the scream and vibration out of the machine. To demonstrate he set a glass of water on the machine and switched it on and we made note of the noise and the ripples on the top of the water. After that the guys cut the rubber V belts off and installed the new Link Belts. The noise level was easily cut in half or more and the vibration in the glass of water was more than half reduced. Some time later the belts wore out on my Taiwanese lathe and rather than pull the spindle out of the machine, I went down and purchased a length of link belt (4 times the price of regular belts) and stuck them on the machine. The machine ran MUCH quieter and I also noticed a lot less vibration. I later added them to my muzzle brake making mill drill. Those same belts have been on the little 32 inch mill for 20 years, unchanged. The ones on the lathe had to be changed last year after 20 years of use.

Another trick I learned came at the expense of me being chained to an infernal, outrageously humbug, Hardinge screw machine making studs for 3 months many many years ago. While running it was like watching paint dry, I had to marvel at how close the Rego-Fix collets ran both lineally and axially on cold roll when compared to other collets and 3 jaw chucks that I had used. When the ER40 and ER32 collet plates/chucks for lathes came on the market, I immediately started experimenting with them and I have never looked back. I still use the chucks a lot on the gear head machine, but on the lathe that I do barrel & chamber work and brakes on the collet chuck hasn't been removed in probably 8 years.

The first set lasted about 20 years. These are the replacements added last year.

Link Belts 2 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

These belts were put on 20 years ago and have never been replaced.

Link Belts 1 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

An installed ER40 collet chuck on a screw mount and an ER40 chuck on a D-14 plate.

ER40 Collet Chucks by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

Bit off topic here, but that's my Taiwanese lathe in the pic. I bought it used and it came with the usual Chenglish instruction manual. What kind of oil are using to lubricate the headstock ? Been using ATF transmission fluid as a default.



Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams:
Bit off topic here, but that's my Taiwanese lathe in the pic. I bought it used and it came with the usual Chenglish instruction manual. What kind of oil are using to lubricate the headstock ? Been using ATF transmission fluid as a default.
Grizz

ISO 32 in the headstock bearings
ISO 68 in the apron
ISO 460 painted on to the transmission gears where you select threads and feeds and the drive gears or banjo

ADD NOTE: It runs 50% quieter if you maintain the transmission gears and banjo with ISO 460 at least once a month. I have replaced or made every part on that lathe (except the bed, spindle, tailstock casing and spindle casing) including the lead screw at least once. Even the tailstock barrel has been replaced. It's had 2 sets of bearings. I WON'T LET IT DIE ! lol

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by Woodhits:
I went through this exercise a few years ago. I loved the idea of buying "American iron" but I wanted to build rifles, not rebuild a lathe. Additionally, the logistics of getting a used lathe to my house were pretty daunting.

I bought a Grizzly 14x40 "Gunsmithing lathe". You get what you pay for. The lathe had some significant vibration problems that, after months of tinkering, I finally diagnosed as being cause by "memory" on the drive belts-- a set of v-belts solved that problem.

The chucks that it came with were junk so I invested in two Bison chucks. I also bought and installed a Dropros DRO. The cast piece that rode under the ways to allow the tailstock to torque down broke in half in the middle of a chambering job and I had to make a replacement on the mill.

After working with it for a couple of years and making numerous tweaks-- it works fine and I've built some pretty accurate rifles with it. That said, I would have bought a different lathe if I were going to do it over again.

A couple things I have done over the years. Way back 20 years ago I helped a buddy move in a huge industrial table saw into his shop. The thing weighed close to a ton and had computerized feed, blade height, angle and a whole bunch of other neat stuff. It was like, Godzilla fucked Black & Decker and that thing came out. After we got it in he told one of the employees to get the pruning sheers and cut the 5 belts off and install new ones. Of course I had to know what that was all about and he explained that they used Link Belts instead of the regular black rubber/cloth V belts to take the scream and vibration out of the machine. To demonstrate he set a glass of water on the machine and switched it on and we made note of the noise and the ripples on the top of the water. After that the guys cut the rubber V belts off and installed the new Link Belts. The noise level was easily cut in half or more and the vibration in the glass of water was more than half reduced. Some time later the belts wore out on my Taiwanese lathe and rather than pull the spindle out of the machine, I went down and purchased a length of link belt (4 times the price of regular belts) and stuck them on the machine. The machine ran MUCH quieter and I also noticed a lot less vibration. I later added them to my muzzle brake making mill drill. Those same belts have been on the little 32 inch mill for 20 years, unchanged. The ones on the lathe had to be changed last year after 20 years of use.

Another trick I learned came at the expense of me being chained to an infernal, outrageously humbug, Hardinge screw machine making studs for 3 months many many years ago. While running it was like watching paint dry, I had to marvel at how close the Rego-Fix collets ran both lineally and axially on cold roll when compared to other collets and 3 jaw chucks that I had used. When the ER40 and ER32 collet plates/chucks for lathes came on the market, I immediately started experimenting with them and I have never looked back. I still use the chucks a lot on the gear head machine, but on the lathe that I do barrel & chamber work and brakes on the collet chuck hasn't been removed in probably 8 years.

The first set lasted about 20 years. These are the replacements added last year.

Link Belts 2 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

These belts were put on 20 years ago and have never been replaced.

Link Belts 1 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

An installed ER40 collet chuck on a screw mount and an ER40 chuck on a D-14 plate.

ER40 Collet Chucks by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

Rod-

Those exact belts are the ones that I installed on my Grizzly. They did wonders in cutting vibration.

They are also sort of self tightening. As it was explained to me by the sales people: If they start to slip, the little feets on the bottom of the belt grab and the belt stands up and tightens itself through tough usage. When the pressure comes off, the belt sits back down in the shivs. As long as you install the belts the right way. They have little arrows on them to show direction of rotation.

All I know is that you don't have to pull the spindle to install them, they run much smoother and quieter and the life span is probably 8 times that of normal belts. GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME !

I used a South Bend 10" for years and now currently only have a little Grizzly G9972Z 11"x26" for small things and some pistol work. It has too much flex to do much at all with it but I get by with it for now. After we buy the land we want and build the house and shop I'll look at one of the 14 x 40 Gunsmith lathes from Grizzly. I also have one of the smaller mills from Grizzly (G0705) 29" x 8" and it does pretty well, I would say it is built better than the smaller lathes from Grizzly. When it comes to anything to do with machine work you would do well to listen to speerchucker.

Steve..........