Yeah, Ray,

Most of the "French" Walnut probably came from Warsaw, Missouri. Wonder why they didn't call it Polish Walnut?
Rich Elliott

Okay then no more Chivas Regal or Wild Turkey.
Hope we don't end up boycotting the Canadian's cause I like their liquor the best.
R.E.

My opinion is , any boycott of US Repeating Arms is going to hurt the employees (American citizens) and their families way more than the foreign multinational that owns them .

A tough choice to be sure .

[ 03-22-2003, 21:19: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

It will take a massive boycott to hurt the people that work at Winchester in this country. It probably won't happen as most Americans are uninformed, many would be hard pressed to name a French Company let alone what products they make. Meanwhile, even though the lack of my dollars probably won't hurt anybodies livelyhood, I will feel a lot better if I don't buy anything from these ungrateful backstabbers.

I have a great uncle buried in one of those French cemeteries and as far as I'm concerned we should sever ties with France forever. We should bring back our war dead and put them in Arlington and, while we're at it, we should kick the UN off US soil. Maybe France would take them. It's about time we start helping countries that appreciate our help. American Arrogance? Maybe. But to me it's called CYA.

Right on Chic!

[ 03-22-2003, 18:56: Message edited by: klsm54 ]

Customstox:

This is an international website. AR members share a common interest in firearms and hunting and are colleagues in that respect. You are an arrogant and ignorant person and as a legacy in your own mind you show contempt for citizens trying to make a living. Because you are an arrogant snob you do not have an understanding of the economic hardships of the working class and advocate putting decent citizens out of work. It is not important to you to treat people with dignity and respect. You will find humility when you can not pay your bills.

You are a poor judge of character.

Buliwyf

I didn't care for the frog bastards before this latest riff. I was also reading through the list of frog products and thinking "damn, I'm doing pretty well keeping away from the bastards" when I came to the following:

Motel 6 (been there, won't go back and while I haven't stayed at Red Roof Inns I'll keep that in the back of my mind).

Sofitel (hotels, owned by Accor). I stayed there when in Brazil on business...not much choice on my part...maybe I'll try another place should I return.

T-Fal (kitchenware). Damn! my favorite frying pan.

USFilter. We use this equipment at work...time to switch to Milli-Q

Wild Turkey (bourbon). I buy this on occasion but it will be nothing but JD or the good stuff from now on.

Shoot, it just occured to me that my new car, a German car damn it! , came with Michelin tires...it will be the last pair. My truck wears Dunlop's (great by the way) so hopefully they make a good car tire.

Thanks for the list Customstox. If the concept of voting with your wallet is lost on others then so be it. As for Rugintonchester, I will most likely be buying elsewhere for strictly quality reasons.

Cheers,

Reed

P.S. Don't anybody fret over the war. If Iraq uses chemical or biological weapons the frogs have pledged to come to our aid...I've been sleeping better at night with that knowledge.

Reed........I always thought Wild Turkey WAS the good stuff . It does kinda' sadden me to see it on the list.........

buliwyf

I won't be shedding any tears soon for all those poor familys being put out by any proposed boycott. I don't make purchasing decisions based on who's family it's going to feed. It is no secret many Americans have little respect for the country of France. I hope their latest actions regarding the Irag situation are rewarded with a distancing of relations with the U.S. Same for Germany as well. You can try and make these things personal among the posters here since it is a international forum. But with the exception of idiots such as yourself you'll fail. I can have my opinion of France without condemming and dis-liking every individual from France. Your a angry little man using this forum to try and make yourself feel better. Have a nice day

dempsey:

These are your fellow country men you want to put out of work. We have international colleagues on this site that do not deserve to read the trash you are posting.

You are an inbred.

Buliwyf

SD,

I've always kind of felt JD and Wild Turkey were pretty much equal...better than Jim Beam, which is better than Evan Williams for example, but none of these are as good as Blantons or Woodford Reserve to name a few.

As for the frogs and boycotts affecting those in the U.S., I'll say that I work very hard for my money and I spend it carefully. For example, I won't introduce patriotism into car buying when there are autoworkers right now making more money than I doing a relatively simple job with far less education than I. They seem to benefit from a closed financial system (union) while I do not and while I've owned numerous U.S. made vehicles, the notion of patriotism NEVER entered into my selection process.

Having said that, I will no longer buy any frog products...and those to date have been by accident.

Cheers!!

Reed

Howard,

Do you like Chinese products?

If you are like me, you probably don't.

I like America, so I buy American products. Trouble is, everything inside sayd MADE IN CHINA?

buliwyf

Your quick descent into childish insults demonstrates the weakness of your argument. It's a common socialist charater flaw. If the international "colleagues" find my comments insulting that is their opinion and they're entitled to it. It is of no concern to me. I'm a red blooded American and my concerns and loyaltys lie there. I'm quite sure that is what is most irratating for you I think your late for your peace rally..... go get um dempsey

Boycott the French or whoever and that country will boycott your products. It doesn't just work one way.

Boycott Winchester so I can get a better deal on a new Winchester rifle.

It sounds like some of you guys are saying, if you dont agree with me I'm just going to cry like a baby.

dempsey:

You are misguided, confused, and stupid. If your concerns and loyalities were actually with the US you would not support the loss of jobs for your fellow countrymen. Men and women with families to provide for. The world economy is integrated.

You will regret not caring how you insult the international members of AR.

Buliwyf

Ranger Dave

It's not as simple as "if you dont agree with me I'm just going to cry like a baby." although some may like to think so. France, thru the use of the European Union and the WTO have long been trying to "boycott" our products. I think it's become clear that oraganizations such as the UN and WTO exist only oppose the U.S. It's time for new alliances and time for the States to exit some of our former strong ties and memberships to anti-American organizations.

buliwyf

Nice try, your coalition building skills are lacking.

dempsey:

Take your insane logic to the store and see how much food and clothes it buys.

Working people need their jobs and have done nothing to deseve being economically damaged. The real world has bills to be paid. Do not toy with their livelihood.

Buliwyf

buliwyf

You seem to be under the impression I do not work nor have bills to pay. You seem to be lacking any basic economic knowledge. You can't even argue this because your incapable of understanding my position. Instead, you attempt to make false assumptions as to what my position is. You do this in a effort to create something you think you *can* argue against. Your entertainment value is becoming short lived.

dempsey:

The impression you have created of yourself is that you are not well informed of how the global economy works and that you are hateful and indifferent to your fellow countrymen and the international community.

Buliwyf

Deleted.

[ 03-24-2003, 19:54: Message edited by: alvinmack5 ]

Buliwyf,

I am not fond of the French, in fact I abhor the the attitude the engrats adopted many years ago. Until these wonderfull hard working French people you refer to vote their bloody politicians out I will maintain that attitude..I will boycott everything French, they, like anyone else who sell products of war to the enemy are my enemy, that includes all who are against my country.....I have that right and care less who agrees or not....

When you resorted to name calling of those who disagreed with you, you lost your credibility BTW...

Frankly, I think your mislead and border on misinformed with your views, they lack substance and fact and simply border on liberalism and politically correctness....

I also believe the quality of the Win. M-70 has gone to hell in a hand basket since their takeover...for that reason I won't have a new M-70, that's the American way and I can do that..I will instead buy CZ's and Ruger, I hope I still have that option in your opinion, and if Win cannot produce a satisfactory rifle, then they should fold....

buliwyf
I put my country first, I believe in capitolism and I don't apologize for my countrys success or power. For those basic reasons we are on opposite sides and for that I'm gratefull. dempsey

What to do with a country where 25 percent of the vote goes to communists, more for socialists and a sizable number for fascists? Boycotts certainly are difficult in an integrated world economy so I too will pass on the obvious French products. It's the hidden ones like Holland & Holland that create problems. But maybe not, since I can't afford to buy one. They are owned by the group that owns Chanel. Pity.

Ranger Dave, I think it has been pretty well established that Winchester is not owned by the French.

Gentlemen

Why don't you boycott German stuff, they are also against the War. they don't like the USA or Bush!!
I mean why should you support them? I see a very hard time for kreighoff, Sauer, Sauer & Sohn, Merkel, Zeiss, S&B, Mauser and finally my favorite make BLASER

Rigby in USA get some of their guns from Germany soo you have to boycott them too and piss off Mr Boddington.

I guess the only ones that will buy french stuff are the ancestors of burbons in Louisiana

Rich Elliott,
If the walnut should have been grown in Poland it would have been very dense beacuase of the climate. The walnut from the kaukasus mountains are very nice and the climate is about the same as in south Poland.

Now it's just bad and have to be died to make a decent stock

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 03-23-2003, 14:55: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

While the German government did not support the move against Irag, it did not try to undermine U.S. efforts. The French went out of their way to break up any coalition. Being an ally and not agreeing is one thing; it's another matter when you actively work against a long-time friend. We'll see what the French say once this mess is over and it's time to let contracts for the rebuilding of Irag. It's also time to tell the French that one brings to the table more than just an appetite.

Deleted.

[ 03-24-2003, 19:54: Message edited by: alvinmack5 ]

Whoa!! Alvinmack, Buliwyo is a good guy and he has been around here for a long time, I absolutly disagree with him on this subject, but he sure has the right to his opinnion which is 99% of the time correct on most subjects, also my opinion... He happens to have a different point of view on this particular subject, and as an American he can certainly express his view...We can disagree but whip his ass? Thats a cheap shot and playing it pretty safe over the internet, your out of line IMO and owe the man an apoligy, again just my opinnion....

It seems to me buliwyf is less interested in expressing his opinion, wrong as it is, and more interested in trying to take the opportunity to attempt to make it personal. His responses indicate that to me. But yes, buliwyf does indeed have the safety of the internet. I for one can understand Alvinmack's response. I've wanted to stomp a few assholes myself from time to time

AlvinMack, no apology needed in my opinion. Buliwyf made it personal with his name calling. By the way I don�t think I have yet read �logic� on this thread that made less sense. What a fool!

Saaed, no I am not particularly fond of the ChiComs either. But yes it is quite hard to avoid them. Different situation in my opinion too. They are traditional enemies who are finding out that we make better trading partners and friends then enemies. They are becoming more like us as they get to know us. The Frogs on the other hand have experienced the friendship and loyalty of America and we have proved that loyalty in two different wars by shedding blood on French soil to liberate their ungrateful sorry asses.

With the French it goes beyond disagreeing with us. As others have said they have gone out of their way to solicit opposition to us.

[ 03-23-2003, 09:43: Message edited by: Howard ]

You are an arrogant and ignorant person and as a legacy in your own mind you show contempt for citizens trying to make a living. Because you are an arrogant snob you do not have an understanding of the economic hardships of the working class and advocate putting decent citizens out of work.

These are your fellow country men you want to put out of work.

You are misguided, confused, and stupid. If your concerns and loyalities were actually with the US you would not support the loss of jobs for your fellow countrymen. Men and women with families to provide for. The world economy is integrated.

Take your insane logic to the store and see how much food and clothes it buys.

The impression you have created of yourself is that you are not well informed of how the global economy works and that you are hateful and indifferent to your fellow countrymen and the international community.

Buliwyf....

I think it is you that is confused about global economy.

It is not the responsibility nor obligation of the consumer to maintain employment status of people who work for these companies.

It is the responsibility of the parent company.

The decision whether or not to purchase these products (which have legitimate and equal quality competitive products in all cases) is that of the consumer. The decision to buy can be based upon price, quality, or any other whim the consumer may have.

If the product doesn't sell, it is the responsibility of the parent company to rectify that situation.........and make the product more attractive to the consumer.

In keeping with the guns and hunting theme that these forums are about, I have read multiple recommendations to not purchase products or services from companies or entities on these pages. The reasons have been varied, and there was precious little thought given to employment status of the individuals employed.

Now, if you really must have that Renault, T-Fal frying pan, or that new set of Michelins...........feel free to purchase them.

I won't.

GV

Jacobs Creek (owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989).Jameson (whiskey). Jerry Springer (talk show)

I already only buy "made in the USA" when ever possible anyway, but in the spirit of protest I guess I will stop watching Jerry Springer also! (Gee, won't that be hard ).

Jameson Irish whiskey, French?

Screw the whole world, I'll never stop buying that product. A matter of fact my grand dad says were related to the blood line.

It is the finest and smoothest. And I refuse to believe it's french!

Poor out that wine but send Jamies to me.

Gentlemen,

I thought this article might be of interest.

Hi Tech US Company Relocating To PRC

Saeed, I can't seem to be able to open that link. I even tried right clicking on it and going to properties and doing a copy paste.

Chic,

Here it is.

Missile Technology Sent to China
Posted Feb. 5, 2003

By Scott L. Wheeler

A worker at Magnequench�s soon-to-be relocated Valparaiso, Ind., factory.

An important U.S. high-tech manufacturer is shutting down its American operations, laying off hundreds of workers and moving sophisticated equipment now being used to make critical parts for smart bombs to the People's Republic of China (PRC), Insight has learned.

Indianapolis-based Magnequench Inc. has not yet publically announced the closing of its Valparaiso, Ind., factory, but Insight has confirmed that the company will shut down this year and relocate at least some of its high-tech machine tools to Tianjin, China. Word of the shutdown comes as the company is producing critical parts for the U.S. Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) project, more widely known as smart bombs, raising heavy security issues related to the transfer of military technology to the PRC. The factory uses rare earths to produce sintered neodymium-iron-boron permanent magnets that have many industrial applications but are essential to the servos critical to precision-guided munitions. According to documents obtained by Insight, Magnequench UG currently is producing thousands of the rare-earth magnets for "SL Montevideo Tech," a Minnesota-based manufacturer of servos. That company confirmed to Insight that it holds a Department of Defense (DoD) contract to produce the high-tech motors for the precision-guided JDAM.

The Valparaiso-based manufacturer, originally known as UGIMAG, became Magnequench UG when it was acquired by Magnequench Inc. in August 2000. Magnequench Inc. had been purchased in 1995 by a consortium that included the China-based San Huan New Materials and Hi-Tech Co., created and at least partially owned by the Chinese Academy of Sciences in Beijing. Magnequench was a spin-off company of General Motors Corp. (GM), and at the time of the buyout was headquartered in Anderson, Ind.

Clyde South was a negotiator for the United Auto Workers Local 662 representing the workers at Magnequench when the consortium began negotiating to buy the company in 1995. In an interview with Insight, South says that worker concern about PRC influence over the consortium led to an "agreement with GM" that the plant would remain in Anderson for at least 10 years According to South, the buyers made the same agreement with the union, but since he had doubts about their intentions he took his concerns to Washington. Warnings fell on deaf ears. In August 2001, the sixth year of the 10-year agreement, South's distrust was validated when the consortium's managers "told us they intend to close the plant" and eliminate roughly 400 jobs.

The Magnequench plant in Anderson transforms neodymium, iron and boron into powder using a unique patented process that produces the exotic rare-earth magnets. Following the buyout in 1995, the production line at Anderson was "duplicated in China" at a facility built by the PRC company. According to South, after the company "made sure that it worked, they shut down" the Anderson facility. South says he suspects the buyout was about getting the technology, adding, "I believe the Chinese entity wanted to shut the plant down from the beginning. They are rapidly pursuing this technology."

Meanwhile, says the union negotiator, "They told us, 'We are going bankrupt,'" and therefore had to close the Anderson facility. This was not long after the consortium purchased UGIMAG in Valparaiso, according to critics, telling the workers there that they planned to keep the factory running. But, according to some sources, Magnequench Inc. had "refused to buy the buildings or the property" on which the factory was located, "suggesting a temporary arrangement." South said of his experience, "You just couldn't believe anything they told you."

The plant workers at Magnequench UG are organized by the United Steelworkers of America. Insight contacted union official Michael O'Brien, who confirmed negotiations with Magnequench UG regarding the company's future, but declined to comment further.

The transfer to Communist China of technologies that make rare-earth permanent magnets also is a matter of concern for defense and national-security experts, says Peter Leitner, a senior strategic-trade adviser to the DoD. Leitner says rare-earth magnets "lie at the heart of many of our most advanced weapons systems, particularly rockets, missiles and precision-guided weapons such as smart bombs and cruise missiles." He tells Insight why the PRC's need for this type of technology is urgent, noting that "China has an ongoing high-priority effort to produce a long-range cruise missile. They are trying to replicate the capabilities the U.S. has, such as with the Tomahawk [cruise missile], as part of their power projection, and expanding their ability to strike targets at long distances."

Since the 1995 buyout of Magnequench by the consortium of two Chinese companies and a cooperating U.S. firm, it has in turn bought at least two more high-tech companies that deal in rare-earth magnets. In addition to UGIMAG in 2000, which became Magnequench UG, it has bought GA Powders, which was a spin-off company of the Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory, a U.S. national lab. An insider tells Insight that "Magnequench UG is the last American company making these rare-earth magnets. When it moves to China, there are none left." Leitner sees a pattern. He says the Chinese "have targeted the manufacturing process through a variety of suspicious business activities and have been furiously transferring the manufacturing technology to China, thereby becoming the only source. They are purchasing U.S. companies, shutting them down and transferring them to China."

According to Leitner, "The Chinese are clearly trying to monopolize the world supply of rare-earth materials such as neodymium that are essential to the production of the militarily critical magnets that enable precise guidance and control of our most advanced weapons and aircraft." He warns that risks are involved in allowing this kind of technology transfer, adding: "By controlling the access to the magnets and the raw materials they are composed of, U.S. industry in general and the auto industry in particular can be held hostage to PRC blackmail and extortion in an effort to manipulate our foreign and military policy. This highly concentrated control -- one country, one government -- will be the sole source of something critical to the U.S. military and industrial base."

Intelligence analysts emphasize that the PRC routinely combines espionage operations with business deals. Internal PRC documents refer to this as advancing "economy and ... national-defense construction." A 1999 congressional report on PRC espionage states that the Beijing government sees "providing civilian cover for military-industrial companies to acquire dual-use technology through purchase or joint-venture business dealings" as a responsibility of the government. The report lists "rare-earth metals ... for military aircraft and other weapons" as one of the primary targets of the PRC.

So how could this be happening? Because of the PRC's involvement in the 1995 buyout of Magnequench, the deal required the approval of the Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States (CFIUS), which is chaired by the secretary of the Treasury. CFIUS approval of the buyout predated a series of reports by the FBI and congressional committees warning of massive PRC espionage efforts against U.S. businesses and military technology. In one case, which involved the then-struggling McDonnell Douglas Corp., the China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corp. (CATIC) targeted the U.S. aircraft giant's plant at Columbus, Ohio, according to government sources. Plant 85, as it was known, is where the bodies of the U.S. Air Force C-17 strategic transport plane and the MX intercontinental ballistic missile were made.

In 1994, CATIC made an offer to buy Plant 85 and relocate it to what was to be a civilian aircraft-production facility, according to government documents. The request for an export license for the plant's machine tools touched off a bitter feud among export-control officials at the DoD that still lingers nine years later. Those opposed to the sale argued that once the Plant 85 machine tools were exported to the PRC, they would be used to produce missiles for China's People's Liberation Army (PLA). Those who favored the sale pointed to the ancillary deal the PRC dangled in front of McDonnell Douglas to purchase more than $1 billion worth of aircraft.

In the end, those in favor of the sale of Plant 85 won out and those opposed almost immediately were vindicated. According to government documents, within months of exporting the plant to China, U.S. officials learned that the sensitive machine tools had been diverted for use in a Chinese factory that makes the Silkworm missile that Beijing has provided to rogue nations. United Auto Workers union official South tells Insight he sees similarities between the cases of McDonnell Douglas and Magnequench, noting that immediately after the consortium's first Magnequench acquisition, "They transferred the patented jet-casting process to China."

In an interview with Insight, Magnequench Inc. President Archibald Cox Jr. initially denied but later confirmed having a contract for the production of rare-earth magnets for the JDAM. When asked about the shutdown of the Anderson plant last year, he acknowledged having a 10-year agreement with GM and the steelworkers, but insists that despite the early termination of that agreement the workers "got a fair deal" when the company bought out their contract. Cox tells Insight the closing of the Valparaiso plant was a matter of economics, and denies that the company is moving equipment to China.

"We are going to sell everything in the plant ... unless we can use it somewhere else," says Cox. Insight has obtained evidence that "somewhere else" may mean China. A copy of an internal memo from the Valparaiso plant seems to contradict the "sell or auction" option. A brief memo, dated Jan. 23, states in part, "In the near future you will be seeing people in the plant performing measurements and a variety of estimating and planning activities in preparation for equipment sale and/or removal ... to give the company an idea of cost and logistics." According to eyewitness accounts, all such "people have been from China." Cox also acknowledges that Magnequench Inc. did not purchase the buildings or land where the Valparaiso plant is located, but refuses to characterize reluctance on the company's part: "It just wasn't part of the deal," Cox says.

And, Cox insists, "China is already selling the same products for less money."

A source with detailed and specific information about the internal operations of the company tells Insight that "the company set up their own competitors by transferring the machines and technology to China. Once the Chinese companies bought into Magnequench, they created their own competition."

According to company officials, Mangnequench asked for and received clearance to export equipment it has shipped to the PRC.

Meanwhile, employees of Magnequench UG have placed their hope in an unlikely labor-union ally. The one surefire deterrent to Magnequench UG's move to China would be for President George W. Bush to exercise his authority under the 1988 Exon-Florio amendment to the Defense Production Act and order San Huan New Materials to divest its holdings in this strategic U.S. company. In his State of the Union Address, the president offered a glimmer of hope for Magnequench employees by declaring his administration's intent to "strengthen global treaties banning the production and shipment of missile technologies." If so, say the workers, this may be a very good place to begin the process.

Scott L. Wheeler is an investigative reporter for Insight magazine.

I do not have a single product in my house Made in China. Yup, you read that right, no Chink products. I agree that it is tough to buy things, but I would rather hold off on the new Appliance/Gadget/Toy rather than spend a dime on Chinese goods. I also respectfully disagree with Howard. The Chinese are faking a policy of openness, while attempting to gain all our technology and become a superpower. Our children, and our grandchildren, will pay dearly for all the money we have given to China over the years. And no, I am not a McCarthy type Commie-hater...

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I' would be suprized If you don't. Often China stuff are in TV, video cameras, computers etc.

There is always some component that are made there soo 100% china free is not easy to find

/ JOHAN

The M1999 Action!!! Sorry, couldn't resist.

Although I will admit we haven't checked the pedigree of all the American companies we buy from.