Years ago I did some stock duplicating. I have a chance to re-aquire my duplicator.

I'm setting here retired with time on my hands and a need for a little more fun $$ . Sure not looking to get rich.

At the current time I have no patterns so near term it would be a copy service as I aquire some patterns.

Do you guys see a need for service with quick turn around?

Just startng to scratch my head over this one. So please share your pros and cons!!!!!!!!!!

I sure would like to see a duplicating service with quick turnaround and reasonable pricing. I might even have a stock or two that you could use for patterns.

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Originally posted by craigster:
I sure would like to see a duplicating service with quick turnaround and reasonable pricing. I might even have a stock or two that you could use for patterns.

More importantly, good inletting, not oversized.

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Originally posted by z1r:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
I sure would like to see a duplicating service with quick turnaround and reasonable pricing. I might even have a stock or two that you could use for patterns.

More importantly, good inletting, not oversized.

And not too undersized either!!!!! I like it to have just a couple thousandths at most that need to be removed. I really like Shane Thompsons 1:1 duplicating. His inletting just needs a little clean up and you pretty much have a perfect fit.

If you could offer clean precise inletting and copying you would have a pretty good demand for services. I know I always seem to be needing a stock duplicated.

Paul, I got a Cresant Arms shotgum, from "someone" that has a cracked wrist....

Keith

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Paul, I got a Cresant Arms shotgum, from "someone" that has a cracked wrist

That is a historical crack. My dad was born in 1926. Said he was about 12 when his dad let him shoot it. Said the crack was there at that time. So figure the crack is at least 75+ years old. Heck that crack is even above the side plate.

Ever get it to stop locking itself closed?

I would really like to see a stock duplicating service that is affordable with a quick turnaround AND with patterns since I have none.

Gracias,
Hoot

Ramrod 340, I would appreciate a stock duplicating service with quick turn around. Therein lays the problem. A good duplicating service , priced right with good in letting and fast turn around service would be so overwhelmed with work in no time that it would drag you down and be the same as all the other duplicating services time wise. You offer great service and you will never sleep again. I would love to have your service but I don't want it to take over your life. I do a little gun smithing for close friends. I tell them that if they want it in a hurry they brought it to the wrong guy. If I have to meet a deadline then the pleasure is gone out of it and I don't enjoy it.

Here's to you Paul!

I'm at a loss as to what goes on in the duplicating business. I bought a cheap duplicator myself due to frustation. I tried Wenigs and they raped me, with me ending up supplying the pattern since the promised one didn't exist, and then they almost doubled the price (above an already doubled price)because I let them use my stock. They were quick. The stock was so undersized at the tamg that it barely covered the metal. I used three or four others in the past year.Only one produced a forearm in a reasonable and promised time, at a good price. He only works in a specialized field, however. I have recieved incredible work at rock bottom prices, and bad work at ridiculous prices, and all points between. The one common theme has been slow response. I sent four stocks to a dirt cheap guy who does great work. He promised two week TAR. Got three stocks at the 9 month point and still waiting (at ten months) for the last. This is what drove the breakdown duplicator purchase.

If someone did stocks at a reasonable price and quickly, you would be so swamped for business that the the quickly would soon disappear. I suspect that the fundamental problem is that there is a much larger market here than is realized. A couple of years ago, I broke over and ordered two stocks from Richards, since they had the patterns I neede. This was two different orders. Both took three to four weeks. This from a (relatively) large company which I am sure uses automated CNC turning.

Stocks from Richard's in three to four weeks? Unbelieveable!

quote:

Originally posted by Hoot Murray:
I would really like to see a stock duplicating service that is affordable with a quick turnaround AND with patterns since I have none.

Gracias,
Hoot

Define affordable. And is this price reflective of you supplying the blank or the duplicator?

There are lots of "affordable" duplicators out there but their work reflects their low prices.

there is a market, and a demand..
the market is fairly small, the demand, for market, is decent.. HOWEVER, no one seems to want to pay for what the work is worth.

cnc specs, sand casting budget

Forget it! How much you want for the duplicator? Seriously though, a cleanly and precisely duplicated stock can save a stockmaker(in time which =money) much more than the cost of the duplication service. It seems however that most in the business devote most of their time to the exterior of the stock rather than the inletting. Well a 6 year old kid with a sanding block can straighten up the outside, but it is virtually impossible to straighten up the inletting that some in the duplicating business are currently providing (at least with inletting scrapers). If I owned a duplicator I would strive to be the best and not the cheapest, therefore able to deliver work on a timely basis. You really just need a few good repeat customers. I recently ordered a stock from a California company for a rifle that I did not have a pattern for and what I received for too much money was CRAP!

Keep it coming. I've thought of some and some are excellent points I've missed.

Kind of hard to make the inletting

You might check with the estate of Mike Kokolus. He had a large inventory of patterns, and all kinds of tools. He was one who offered what you are considering.

If I use a duplication service I glass and send my own pattern stock..I think most stockmakers would do that?? you could be making a pattern from each of those pattern stocks that you receive..Some would probably not want you to do that for whatever reason. It would not bother me at all and I would be glad to send you my patterns to make your patterns and you could pay me in trade, whatever works.

If one is good at it and not everyone is as there is more to it than some think..It does take a modicum of skill to trace a stock properly..If you have the capability then it will work and you will get the business..

That said, I looked into it and figued I would have to work my butt to the bone to pay for the damn machine before I made any money..So I opt to use and axe, band saw, grubbing hoe or whatever, or send them out with my pattern.

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I think the business has been sold, read the thread titled "Mike Kukolus"

That is my understanding.

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Originally posted by ramrod340:
Ever get it to stop locking itself closed?

Well Paul, I got it apart shortly after getting it, and that is as far as i got...

Keith

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there is a market, and a demand..
the market is fairly small, the demand, for market, is decent.. HOWEVER, no one seems to want to pay for what the work is worth.

Its always the same modus operandi, You work for nothing and sell me your product so I can mark it up 100-300% and sell it to my customer at a superb deal.You need to hurry up and get started grinding out them stocks so we can make a bunch money and retire too!!

I would love to have a quality stock replication service in town!

Don't get me wrong, sorry to have sounded so negative but as soon as they find out you do great work you get overwhelmed.

I too would love to have a duplicator that does great work they way you want it. I would be one of the honyaks that would drown him with work.

Don't get discouraged on my account, if your heart says YES then by all means get your feet wet and mud on your shoes! Good luck in your (I know you will) new venture!

Paul,

You could get all the work you want if you will do a couple of things. First be honest with the customer and don't try to break his bank on charges. Second must be to manage your time with the first come, first out. I see too many gunsmiths that will work on the easy jobs first and pass over the harder jobs.

Having your own stock duplicator in the shop allows you to control the pattern and cutting of the blank. That is the reason that I made my own machine in 1981. I wouldn't cut stocks for the public, but used it to make turn around time for our own shop much quicker. This saves time on shipping and handling.

I had a request from a guy that had a duplicator wanting a stock for a pattern. I shipped the stock and recieved a check in a few days. The check bounced and cost me at my bank. He sent money the second time, but forgot to pay the extra charges I had for the bad check. I don't see him advertisings any more. I have never seen him post on the AR forum.

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I would love to have a quality stock replication service in town!

Well let me work the cobwebs out and then I'll let you know the quality.

Olcrip- I saw nothing negative in yout post. Just added some thoughts I had come up with yet.

Les thanks very much for your imput.

OK I'm past the 50/50 line leaning towards giving it a try after the first of the year.

I've been accused of selling stuff at 90s prices. Last one I had done was by Ed Shulin before his passing.

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Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

I would love to have a quality stock replication service in town!

Well let me work the cobwebs out and then I'll let you know the quality.

Olcrip- I saw nothing negative in yout post. Just added some thoughts I had come up with yet.

Les thanks very much for your imput.

OK I'm past the 50/50 line leaning towards giving it a try after the first of the year.

I've been accused of selling stuff at 90s prices. Last one I had done was by Ed Shulin before his passing.

I happen to have a piece of Curly Maple that I would like to have carved into a Mannlicher. I'll be sittin here waiting for the announcement!

I've got 2 jobs right now. Let me know.

Ed

Zir,

I know that there are different levels of stock duplicators. I was quoted a price of $425.00 to have my blank (English walnut) duplicated using the fellows pattern stock. I was told that the stock would be held to .010 tolerances. I don't know if that tolerance can be held in wood and if it can, it sure would save one a lot of time in that all you would have to do would be a light sanding and finish the wood.

For my personal use, I don't require that sort of tolerance. I am happy with undersize tolerance in the inletting and oversize on the outside. Like what one gets with a semi-inletted stock. I can do the rest. So, I define affordable for my use in the 150.00 range.

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was quoted a price of $425.00 to have my blank (English walnut) duplicated using the fellows pattern stock. I was told that the stock would be held to .010 tolerances.

.01" is TIGHT!!! 20# copy paper is .004" so he is duplication is within 2.5 sheets of paper?

I'll pass on that claim.

Nice selection of bits and guides.

I don't want to be negative...just realistic.

If you had a duplicator in hand and ready to start and all the people here on this forum were to send you their jobs, you would be swamped for the next HOW many years...

With those lead times, HOW many requests would dry up?

There are already many duplicators and stock makers floating around so as long as you just do it for "fun" and just to pay for the machinery/materials/tools, then it is a good thing to do...but you definitely have to set up business guidelines, time frames, find sources of wood and be ready to get crucified online if just one or two of your stocks turn out "wrong/bad" or dont' fit peoples perceptions of "tight" or...

One thing ALL humans have in common...the more they pay for an item the less likely they are to gripe as the fear of being laughed at for paying high prices for junk...so be sure to CHARGE.

I think it would be a very good thing and a high quality product would be very acceptable and appreciated...but grow thick skin and horns on your head and other places and forget about doing all those thing you like to do because you will spend all your time at the duplicator or you will find yourself without customers and just doing your own work. People are fickled beyond imagination.

The main problem is finding the right niche and filling it and still enjoy what you like to do...and you never know what that niche is or what will happen until you DO IT...

Luck.

I agree with Foobar's statements! I'm doing a very limitted amount of duplicating for just a small circle people. I could swamp myself for a year with one phone call, no problem! I work 40hrs a week at my day job, with some occasional overtime. I don't need to get swamped! I don't want to have people waiting for me on their projects, so I don't make promises I can't keep. I make sure they know this is not how I make my living up front! So far the biggest problem I'm haveing is everybody has somthing alittle different. I'm trying to get a buildup of different patterns to cut down on time. I've been reworking patterns to fit the next job, It's basically twice the work. I think I just need more expierience, and more tools to work with to speed things up a bit. Anyone who thinks this is easy? Well it's not!

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You need tracers of several different diameters for each cutter diameter and ya gotta know how to set the machine up with the tracer and the cutter. Roughing, semi-finishing, and finishing all require different settings as anyone having duplicator experience will know

Years ago with the smith taught me to use it the different sizes were designated by various colors of hair. Total politically incorrect.

Major concern I have is how many of the various bits and guides are left with the machine. Since I no longer have access to a lathe that could be a major pain in the butt.

Up front here, I don't know one danged thing about the duplicator business.

I can, however, tell you what service I would REALLY like to find.

That would be a person who had patterns for inletting and patterns for external shapes, and who was willing to inlet blanks with the pattern for one, and the external shape of another.

I, for instance, would really like to be able to get a blank inletted for a M54 Winchester barreled action into a blank externally correct for the 1950-51 Husqvarna sporters(not the "Husky", but the full weight rifle somewhat similar to the Browning Safari.

I really like the Husqvarna stocks of that era, and I really like the M54 Winchester barreled actions, but can't afford several thousand bucks to have someone mate the two from scratch. If I could get my blanks profiled for both, I could finish and checker them well enough myself for my own use.

Until my stroke I could do it all myself with just hand tools, but I can no longer do all the work...I am too slow and too blind for that to be fun anymore.

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Until my stroke I could do it all myself with just hand tools, but I can no longer do all the work

Man that sucks!

I lucked out during my 21hr heart surgery 7 years ago I had a mild stroke. Has 6 months of exercises to restore most of my short term memory. Only lasting problem was math that I used to be able to do in my head without thinking now requires thought and paper and a calculator.

I hear that!!!!!!!...I carry around a scientific calculator and a note pad because my short term memory is shot to ****, which means the long term memory doesn't get fed...not only not being able to remember what I had for breakfast...2 hours later...I have to continually relearn my higher math, birth dates, holidays etc...plus forgetting WHY I wrote a note to myself... But at least it only takes me a few minutes of punching buttons to get things going again...OLD AGE ISN'T FOR SISSYS FOR CERTAIN.

(sadly)

Wish I could afford a CNC metal shop setup...the world is screaming for home piece work jobs because big industry can't do the small jobs and make a profit...or at least won't look at the smaller stuff.

Not a good outlook in the long run for the following generations or this country.

Luck

Luck

I'd be a customer...

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Originally posted by vapodog:
I'd be a customer...

Dude, we don't want to scare him off!

Just funning you!

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Dude, we don't want to scare him off!

Don't pick on him too much. He is a mauser user.