Hi folks,

got an offer for a custom rifle consisting of the following components:

- Stainless Remington 700 short action
- HS Precision bottom metal and magazine conversion.
- HS precision stock. ( full length alloy bedding block, and devcon bedded to fit action)
- tuned remington trigger.
- Walther fluted stainless match quality barrel. 308 winchester, 20 inch, 1/10 inch twist

Including all the gunsmith work and a 1/2 moa @ 100m guarantee it will cost some 2200 $.

The gunsmith is very skilled and trustworthy - just want to know if this is good value in your eyes?! Would you recommend other components?

Thanks very much for your input - I really appreciate it! Especially because it will be my first go at a custom...

The offer you received is about par for the course, pricewise. I have a feeling you might be able to do better for the $$$, though. Compare your offer to Mike Bryant - a nationally acclaimed BR gunsmith. Supplying your own action, the price is about the same, BUT you get
- your action blueprinted - your offer mentioned nothing about this.
- a Jewell trigger (that is about $200 retail value - and a trillion times better than the Rem factory trigger)
- a McMillan stock - which in my opinion is better than an HS.
- a Hart, Broughton, Krieger, Lilja or Shilen barrel - the top dogs.

Mike is a very, very good smith. And he stands by his work too. I'm sure there are places where you might get the rifle cheaper, but this is one option that will be top quality in every respect.

Good luck - mike

I wouldn't pay that much for something with a L-W barrel. For that kind of money you should get a top quality barrel. Hart, Krieger, Pac-Nor, etc.

John

Hello,
I would change the mfg. of barrrel, but also the length. 20" is somewhat on the carbine, trail,version of a rifle and perhaps that is what you want, but not the best for the fine balistics of the 308. Would prefer the 24" length or even the 26" for long range work and yet be practical in handling. Would also advise the 12 twist for overall performance w/ variety of weight bullets.
Two barrels you will see the most on the firing line are Kriegers and Douglas with a few Harts and Shilens thrown in as well, not that many Walther used?? I am not referring to bench type shooters, but rather long range prone match shooters using sling and mats. No pressed trousers or 25-30 wind flags strung out for some huge range distance of 200 Yards!!( I am being mean to my bench shooter friends and always tell them that if they carry that bench with them at all times they will be fine) For 30 cal. I would prefer the Krieger, but under that, say 6 or 7mm, etc. would go with the Douglas but that is just my own preference based on my own experience.
If you check the retail pricing of a barrel fitted and action squared away, etc. the two, i.e. Krieger and Douglas will be priced very similar to each other. HIGH!! Shilen I believe is even higher, but it has been a while since I checked with them. The older Jewell triggers were a fine trigger, but have found some of the later ones "wanting..." A well tuned Rem. trigger is a good tigger and save some money for bullets. The McMillan stocks are great, HS is OK, they all work, but for the bucks you are mentioning, would go with the McMillan. I would suggest you save the trigger money and use it for rounds down range and master the rifle and the loading of same and then at a later date, you can "upgrade" triggers, etc.
Favor Center!!
dsiteman

Krieger, or Rock Springs barrel as mentioned above.

20" is actually a very usable barrel length for a .308. If suppressors are legal where you live get a good quality one on the rifle and it will be much quieter. The suppressor will decrease recoil as well.

Enjoy,

lawndart

Elwood, I'd pass on the rifle. You can buy almost the same thing direct from HS Precision and have a superior Action HS vs Remington, a better trigger, and cut rifled barrel as good or better than the LW, and have a factory rifle that will hold it's value better than a customized one. They have the same accuracy guarantee........DJ

A different trigger. They are still an unsafe disaster waiting to happen.

L-wood:

If all you want to do is punch paper, or shoot whistle pigs or such, you can save a WHOLE bunch of money by buying a M700 VS in .308. Mine has shot many 5-shot, 1 inch groups at 200 yds with 168g MatchKings in front of 45.0g of AA2520. I would hate to think what it might shoot if I got off my duff and replaced that *&$#!@ trigger with a Jewell or Shilen.

Price? I paid $590 about 6 years ago. They sell for about $650 now. HS Stock, 26 inch 1-10 twist barrel. You could probably buy a used one for under $550.....

JMHO, YMMV, JM.02..........

MKane160

Not knowing the price of such things in Germany it's hard to say if it's a deal or not as I can't make valid comparisons.

Ok, first of all thanks everyone for your feedback! I really appreciate it!

This rifle is for hunting from the stand and stalking - shots up to 300m maximum. Roe/red deer and wild boar to be expected...

One thing in general: Living in Germany means that I have to import all the American weapon parts. Although the dollar is weak at the moment that means adding 20 % for German custom and Sales tax. Plus at least 300 $ for the import license, handling and shipping. So after considering that I believe the offer I got is not too bad?!

@ mho: Doubtless very nice guns but consider import costs and that my current gunsmith is just around the corner for guarantee works etc. Still, very tempting - thanks!

@ gasgunner: I will ask him how much one of these would be - thanks for the hint!

@ dsiteman: I understand LW barrels are not the absolute cream of the crop but BR shooters here say its among the top 5! Due to import/custom/tax American barrels are extremely expensive for me. Longer barrel is an option though...

@ lawndart: The rifle is for stalking mostly. Suppressor is not a bad idea but I am keen on keeping my ears

@ djpaintles: Thought about that but quit the idea due to import/custom/sales tax costs that kill the dollar advantage...

@ Mkane160: I have the Sako Varmint right now - a shooter alright! But for stalking too long and too heavy just like the M700 VS!

@ dempsey: You got it! Import/Custom/Sales Tax is a pain in the a...

Elwood,

If you want a tack driving 308 that's a "good" value- Tikka left handed 308, I touched up the recoil lug only- 1/5 moa at 100 yards with Sierra 150 game kings. Other than having Plain Jane styling and finish, it's a wonderful rifle.

Paul

I am with djpaintles on getting the HS Precision rifle.

Just saw your post about import taxes etc. I would still get the HS Precision.

My best shooting mate has several guns that were done on Rem 700s, all have Jewell triggers, HS Precision stocks, matc grade barrels but he is now looking to dump the Remingtons and get HS Precision. Just a nicer thing to own.

Mike

if remington didn't offer this "off the shelf" for 1/4 to 1/2 the price, i would tell you it's a bargin.

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/700vsf.htm

Link to rem centerfires



the 1/2 moa is a strong statement.. and i haven't seen ONE pss that would not shoot that well . and are under $1000 stateside.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=28879439


infact, i have seen ONE 10 hole group that small....

but each shot was fired by a different person

they had to change shooter, load, aquire target and shoot, in 1 minute each, including the first shooter.

jeffe

Good point jeffeoso,

looks like a very good rifle off the shelf - good stock, good bedding, right caliber - but it doesnt meet my requirements in four points:

1.) weight: I want the rifle to weigh around 3,0 kg (7 pounds???)

2.) steel: I NEED every single metal piece in the rifle to be SS!

3.) magazine: I cant help it but I fancy detachable magazines

4.) safety: I want a Mauser style 3-way safety

Of course I could have all these things modified but then I dont pay a penny less than with the custom rifle!

So far I havent found an off-the-shelf rifle that has all the features I want... That`s why I considered to do it the custom way!

Oh, by the way ths scope mount and zeroing is all included in the price! Still think its a bad deal?

elwood,

HS Precision matches all your requirements.

I don't know if you are familiar with them but basically they are a Rem 700 in design but alrealdy have the Sako style extractor and they are a one piece bolt, have the 3 position safety and the in line feed detachable magazine.

They also have the lager 8 X 40 scope mount scew holes, they have their own mounts, but will take Rem 700 mounts, different barrel lengths, single shot solid bottom action or repeater.

They guarantee 1/2" in 30 calibre and under and supply the load that shoots. There are quite a few people on 24HourCampFire who have them and they seem to be very happy with them.

I think they are a fair wait to get and you pay a deposit and so your spread the import taxes across time, put a couple of dollars in a tin each week.

They would probably be equipped to organise export licence because they come into Asutalia through the import agent that also handles NightForce scopes and Nesika Bay actions.

Mike

Knowing a little more now that rifle is a steal at that price. Adding up the parts and labor and the cost would be close to that price in the US.

@ Mike375: I have had a look at those HS rifles - they sure are nice rifles and I like the company's policy a lot. But they are just too expensive for my budget!!! Including all Import/Shipping/Sales Tax an American rifle must not cost more than 1700 $ in order to not bust my budget!

Thanks for the hint, but thats not my league, unfortunately...

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
Knowing a little more now that rifle is a steal at that price. Adding up the parts and labor and the cost would be close to that price in the US.

Thanks dempsey - thats the confirmation I needed! As an add-on this gunsmith lives virtually just around the corner and would be available for guarantee and further modifications at all times without shipping!

Might still think about another barrel... we'll see.

Thanks everyone so far - I'll let you know how things are proceeding!

quote:

@ mho: Doubtless very nice guns but consider import costs and that my current gunsmith is just around the corner for guarantee works etc. Still, very tempting - thanks!

Aha, I must have missed you wanted the rifle built in Germany. I know we spoke of exporting on another thread - both parts and finished rifles. But apparently, your smith will do this job for you based on components available to him in Germany.

I agree with you, if your local smith is offering this, then this is a strong selling point. Not only does the price seem a lot more reasonable on the background of a European origin, but your chances of having problems fixed surely will be improved. On top of this, you'll save yourself the hassle of dealing with an export, which, although doable, is naturally an added expense as well as source of worry until the rifle finally arrives.

This also puts the use of the LW barrel in a different light. They are indeed supposed to be excellent barrels. For what you are building (a lightish hunting rifle), I doubt you'll see much difference between a Lothar Walther and one of the top US barrels.

The only thing I would personally change would still be the trigger. Rem factory triggers are not bad, but surely no comparison to a Jewell, in spite of what others may opine. But you can easily do that in a couple of years, if you fell the urge to upgrade, and happen to be making a trip to the States...

Good luck - mike

Hi mike,

thanks very much for your encouraging words! I am just about ready to order but so far I couldnt decide which scope I want...

Is a Zeiss/Swarovski/S&B worth the extra expense? Or should I go for the cheaper Leupold and hope that it will live up to my expectations?

I just dont know - maybe I'll just let the price decide. Takes a lot of weight off my shoulders...

So long und merci vielmal,

elwood.

If you will be hunting at night, or often in dim light you will be better served with some big European glass. For all around daytime use the Leupolds are fine. With the dollar being weak right now, the relative cost of the Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski glass has gone down. It might be a good time to take advantage of that.

lawndart

Elwood,

About, Steyr SSG PIV Bolt Action Rifle 308, 23.6"Heavy Barrel, Black Synthetic Fully Adjustable Stock Adjustable LOP. New in the box $ 1,800.00 - Excellent workmanship and very accurate.



Roland

quote:

I am just about ready to order but so far I couldnt decide which scope I want...

Is a Zeiss/Swarovski/S&B worth the extra expense? Or should I go for the cheaper Leupold and hope that it will live up to my expectations?

So long und merci vielmal,

elwood.

Elwood, I take it from your discussions with Gerry, that this rifle is intended to hunt Europe - Germany, pigs at night even??

In that case, yes, it is worth going to a Euro scope. And what is more, it is probably worth going to a 30mm center-tube model, and reticle has to be right, i.e. either illuminated, #4 or #1.

Sadly, the Euro scopes are a bunch more expensive. How are your contacts in the States?? Have you considered shopping for a Euro scope in the States?? Ebay is a decent source for Zeiss Diavari 3-12x56 scopes. Can often be had for less than 1000$ - although they rarely come with mounting rails, illuminated or Euro reticles (which really are better in low light). You'll have to compare to what you can get at home.

Leupold vs. Euro scopes?? Leupolds are great scopes if you hunt abroad, but they have never done the trick for me hunting in Europe - just built for different conditions than what we encounter here. Case in point: most Leupold reticles are way too thin to be used in low light. But other than that, they are great scopes.

FWIW - mike

Hi Mike,

you are right the European scopes are amazingly expensive. I have a Zeiss VM 3-12x56 ill. reticle now but I find it too heavy and it doesn't have the reticle in the second focal plane.

Thanks for the hint on ebay. Might try to find a decent priced there. At dnrsports.net they are just as expensive as in Germany even considering the weak dollar...

I'll check ebay right now, see what I can find.

Thanks again,

elwood.