Does anybody have a recomendation for looking

up proof marks and some othe other markings

found on sporting rifles?

Flaming bombs and such or a heart?

Don

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
Does anybody have a recomendation for looking

up proof marks and some othe other markings

found on sporting rifles?

Flaming bombs and such or a heart?

Don

Don,

Factory proof marks can vary quite a bit between factories, both in type/style and in placement.

There are several good books out there that show the ones used on US military rifles. North Cape Publications books are a good place to start.

The so-called “flaming bomb†was the mark used by the US Ordnance Department.

Rick 0311

Thanks for the input.

I was looking more for american factory proofmarks on sporting arms.
Gotta be something out there..

Don

cal and rick ...... proof marks are made to dentifie certain parts of manufacture, date of production and many other things. I hate to bust yer bubble rick but the flaming bomb is a Belgin proof and it has been owned by Fabric National for over 150 years. As to other questions regaurding proofs there are some charts that list proofs. They are pretty thin at best. I have been made privy to to many proofs but I've never been given the right to publish them "I have asked"
I remain Rod Henrickson

The Gun Digest ran ariticles on proof marks for many years I belive starting about 1966 well into the 70's I think they tried to do a differant country per year.

Yep. "The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by Gerhard Wirnsberger & "Gunmarks" by Byron.

what doug said...
indespensible for knowing what the various countries said the gun had to be proofed to.

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
cal and rick ...... proof marks are made to dentifie certain parts of manufacture, date of production and many other things. I hate to bust yer bubble rick but the flaming bomb is a Belgin proof and it has been owned by Fabric National for over 150 years. As to other questions regaurding proofs there are some charts that list proofs. They are pretty thin at best. I have been made privy to to many proofs but I've never been given the right to publish them "I have asked"
I remain Rod Henrickson

Rod, don’t feel bad as my “bubble†has been burst many times before.

So I guess the Springfields, Enfields, and all the other US military rifles and bayonets that carry the flaming bomb mark were sent to FN for proofing?

Cal,
Proofing a firearm is the required testing, in Europe bit not in the United State, of every new shotgun or other small arm before sale to ensure its safety in the hands of the user. Reproof is the similar testing of a small arm which has previously been proved. Both necessarily involve the firing through the barrel of a considerably heavier load than is customary in the shooting field, thereby setting up pressure and stress on barrel and action much in excess of the pressure generated by standard load cartridges. If a rifle is rechambered and or rebarrelled in Europe, it must be reproofed before it is returned to the owner.

Proof marks are used to identify the proofing of the gun and details related to it.

I do have a source, once I find it, that shows most of the European proofs. I can not imagine why anyone would prohibit the distribution of proof marks. The purpose is information, without the guide the proof is worthless.

The flaming bomb markings is shown in this link. Scroll down in the photos and you will see it. It was used by the New England Westinghouse Ordinance dept. I don't know the significance of that mark or if others used it. From what Rick said, I suspect that they did.

If you look on the barrels of 1903’s and Enfields you will see the manufactures stamp over the flaming bomb ordnance stamp, over the month and date of manufacture.

Am I the only one that finds it just a bit bizarre that the US Military would see fit to have their enemy proof their rifles for them during a time of war?

Just as a side note...the “flaming bomb†has been the official insignia of US Army Ordnance for over 200 years. It’s one of the oldest Army insignias, if not THE oldest in use.

http://www.lugerforum.com/techinfo.html

Wow...I had never realized how weird it feels when your “bubble†comes back together after being burst!

The reason I ask is I have a Rem 721 in

.30-06' made in 1950. I has a few stamps on it
that I have not seen before.
On the port side it has the letter code for dating on the barrel, the serial # on the reciever,on the right side of the barrel near the reciever it has the number 82, R.E.P.(circled) something that looks like a bomb,
a symbal that looks like a womans bossum and where the barrel band where the rear sight is dovetailed it has a heart stamped in it.

By all indications this rifle appears to be a female

Seriously... has anynone have any ideas what they are about?

REP stands for “Remington English Proof†and those letters surrounded by an oval will appear on all the factory installed barrels.

There are also Magnuflux proof marks that are a symbol inside a triangle and placed to either the left or right of the REP mark.

The gallery stamp is either one or two symbols or letters that signify that the weapon was proofed and tested for function and accuracy. One of the gallery symbols was a heart.

The assemblers number will be just in front of the recoil lug.

Those are the only ones that I know, but I’m sure if you contacted Remington they could give you more detail than I can.

I did a bit of poking around at work today rick and yes you are correct there is a version of the flaming bomb in use by the US military we just don’t see it much up here in the great white north. We do see a lot of the Belgian stuff though. The worst thing with proof marks is that you can see them. But most times you really don’t know what the hell they mean and the manufactures generally don’t want to tell you what they mean. Sure we assume that them little marks mean that the gun has been tested with high pressure loads to make certain its safe but in most cases there is a hole lot more to it than meets the eye. For example the Remington coding system. On the chamber area you will find a small triangle. That triangle is stamped on after the action has been magna fluxed to check for faults. You will then find 2 letters. One letter is the month of production using the code B L A C K P O W D E R X for 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 and the second designates the year of production. Then you will find a goofy looking little stamp. That stamp belongs to the person that assembled the gun. Then it gets kinky I think it’s a #3 but im not certain. If you find that 3 it means that the gun has been back to the plant for repair. The 3 is generally preceded by another funny looking mark and that is the repairman’s mark. The final proof on the Remington is the REP within the oval. Remington English Proof. That is when it finally gets tested with the red tipped nickle plated high pressure rounds. Then we go to bolt marks. If you look at your 700 bolt and see a score mark across the outside of your bolt lugs you have a #3 bolt. The tightest bolt Remington makes for that gun. If it has a prick punch mark on one or both lugs it is a #2 bolt the medium head space bolt, if it has no mark at all it is the loosest bolt. Then we go to the bolt proof. If you look at the underside of the bolt handle you will find a prick punch mark, that means that the bolt has been tested with a high pressure load. Some Remington’s are gallery tested and there is a special mark for that on the chamber as well. Then you get out of county proofs. I believe it was a D inside of a circle. That proof was owned by Dave Dinsdale from Davidsons Canada. Then there was the CGS proof mark that I originally held when I worked for the custom gun shop in Edmonton Alberta. I later acquired the -H- proof mark when I started Westgate Gunsports and the CGS proof mark was transferred to Paul Lafeve of Lameige Alberta. There is one other remaining Remington proof house in Canada and it belongs to Alain Bouchard in Ulverton Quebec but I have never seen the mark. One odd note with Remington. The proof the mark belongs to the gunsmith who has been to the plant and taken the training, not to the shop that employs him. Once you have that proof mark you are saddled with it for life. When I left the Custom Gun Shop it was a nightmare to change my proof from CGS to -H- . God knows how many other funny marks are found on Remingtons in Europe and other continents! No wonder there has never been a complete list of proof marks published. By the way Rick I follow Edison’s theory! I ain’t never been wrong I’ve simply discovered 10,000 ways that won’t fuckin work !!!!!!!!!!!! ;o) Rod Henrickson

Rick and speerchucker

Thanks for the info it helped with my questions and answered alot of questions.

Don

spearchucker,

And to add in more confusion I have seen several companies in ShotGun News that sell the arsenal stamps so guys can stamp stuff on their rifles that weren’t ever there to begin with.

And an awful lot of markings get confused for something other than what they are. I believe that it’s some part for 1903’s that were stamped “USMC†and a bunch of people thought that showed parts made for the Marine Corps. In actuality it stood for “United States Machine Companyâ€...or something like that...and had nothing to do with the Marine Corps.

the famous belgin proof is the "peron" which looks like a cheap rumber stamp icon. a square or "book turned 90 degrees, tipped down in front ~30degrees, with two "covers" and a vertical strike.

think of it as a popsicle stick on two stamps.

it's a miter, but that's another story.

remember that commenting on proof marks can be a safety issue

jeffe

And to think that for all these years I thought USMC stood for "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children".
Ya learn sometin' on this site everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by eddieharren:
And to think that for all these years I thought USMC stood for "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children".
Ya learn sometin' on this site everyday.

Ya got me there brother!