Ray

I have considered converting an early 77 Ruger to controlled feed. Maybe you can help me avoid any pitfalls.

Of course the obvious part would be to grind or machine the lower lip off the bottom of the bolt. I was concerned about the absence of any lip at the top, thinking it might not provide good support for the case head. Probably not required for handling pressure but for limiting where the case head could go when feeding up.

Then what type of fixed ejector did you convert to? If you used a Mauser design you would have to slit the left locking lug. Using the model 70 type design would involve more complex machining of the action.

I had a Ruger 458 African and loved it, it had such good balance, and pointed like a fine 20 guage double gun. I sold it in a fit of madness. After two years of whining and moaning I found another one just like it only I beleive this one has probably been to Africa. It seems that the reason it was sold to me at a Dallas gun show was the fact (not revealed to me) that it would not feed at all. When I disassebled it I discovered why. The magazine had a quarter inch of space between it and the wood in front. It had been fired enough to beat the magazine forward untill it reached wood. The magazine was deformed enough to squeeze the top of the lips inward, thus causing very poor feeding. All I had to do is straighten the magazine box and fill the front void with glass bed material. It would take very hot loaded ammunition with heavy bullets to do as much damage as it did. My theory is it was quite a few rounds of 500 grain factory ammo. I doubt that many was fired for fun. Had to be mostly hunting with a full magazine and quite a bit of it. The stock has a lot of honest use marks to match the mileage of the magazine.

I have toyed with the idea of converting to CRF but dont consider it absolutely necassary if it is a lot of trouble.

Buzz,

I see you neglected to mention my sub-MOA M77 .270 I dirtied up just about a month ago when we went to the club. And I brought it out just to show you some M77s would shoot.

(Okay, one flyer but I put a sixth shot right in with the good four just to settle it.)

That with Partitions no less. I wonder if I painted the tips with pretty colors my groups would shrink even more?

Next time we shoot, bring it again so I can give it a whirl...

I never said they all wouldn't shoot (I hope) - but mine sure wouldn't!

I've been reading with much interest the discussion on the M77 MK2 action being or not a "true CRF"

Please, can somebody out there, give somekind of summary of the real causes, and if, possible how to avoid this behavior ??

In my cases, my two M77 Mk2, if operqted slowly, will feed in true CRF fashion, but not if operated at normal "Mauser speeds"

Gustavo, I am not a gunsmith or a rifle expert, so take this for what it's worth. I believe that Ruger removed more from the front of the extractor than Paul Mauser would have approved of.

This allows the extractor to easily snap over the rim of a cartridge that was placed on the raceway, without having to depress the side of the extractor with your other hand (as, I'm told, Paul Mauser designed it be operated). However, it does so at the expense of positive, reliable, foolproof CRF behavior, something Paul Mauser certainly did not intend.

In my mind Ruger's motivation for this is clear: they did not want to have to deal with constant complaints of broken extractors from people who did not know how to properly operate their rifles.

Its still a good rifle though.

And, of course, all of this is just my opinion.

Wismon, thanks for a nice explanation! but why this happens if the bolt is operated at different speeds ?

Tks!

I think it's just sloppiness in the action. But remember, I'm not a gunsmith. There are knowledgeable 'smiths on this site and what they say has more meaning than what I say.

Gustavo

I have a Ruger 77 RSM MKII in .416 Rigby and it will feed in the true controlled fashion slow or fast, it does not matter.

It is very hard to guess the cause of your feed problem with out actually handling the gun. I dont wish to start a big argument here but I find it hard to believe that the extractor being opened up somewhat to make it snap over the rim of the cartridge would cause the cartridge to jump ahead of the extractor when cycling the bolt fast. I think if the right gunsmith did some fine tuning and smoothing of the action rails, remove any sharp burrs around the bolt face and extractor that he might correct the problem. I suggest you be very cautious in who you allow to work on your gun, there are a lot of people who work on guns and are skilled in a lot of areas but will really screw up a bolt action with feed problems.

Here is a little tip. Put only one round in the magazine and see if it feeds better or worse. If it feeds better then that is an indication that your magazine box may be a little narrow. You can bow the box sides outward just a tiny bit and make a lot of differance. Record the original dimensions first, then if needed you can squeeze the magazine box back to original dimensions.

Your best solution would be to return the gun to Ruger under warranty but I see by your location that it might be difficult to do.

Ruger rifles are pretty good guns, they just need a little fine tuning sometimes.

Good Luck

Craftsman, if you search the archives of this and other gun forums you will find that this issue is repeatedly brought up many different participants and they are not referring to the old style push feed version of the rifle. We can't all be crazy.

If the problem is not cause by the beveled and chamfered extractor then I would suggest that Ruger has a quality control problem.

Wismon

My Ruger 77 RSM 416 Rigby would not feed CRF when I first got it. I did a little smoothing, deburring and fine tuning. It now feeds 100% of the time in controlled round fashion, slow, fast, sideways or upside down. The extractor will snap over a chambered round.

However I see that I made a serious mistake. Had I known to search the forum or check with you I would have realized that a Mark II series CRF rifle that feeds correctly and also snaps the extractor over a chambered round is just NOT POSSIBLE !

Perhaps my judgement was clouded by the fact that I've been gunsmithing professionally since 1972. You give us old geezers enough experience and we tend to have these delusions of grandeur.

I have an early Mk11 in .223. It shoots and always has shot like a dream...1/2" groups on a good day with handloads and an honest 3/4"-1" with federal classics. It took two different smiths to sort the trigger but it now matches my Sako. As a working gun its hard to beat and I love the mount system. I would just like to find a reliable way of giving that SS barrel action a more tradional black/blued finnish...

As to triggers, the perection over here is that most European rifles regardless of price come with a better trigger "out of the box" than their American counterpart. Thats nothing to do with a lack of engineering skill but everything to do with the claims culture which Remchester operates in..

Craftsman, lighten up.

I bought a m77 about 3 years ago in 220 swift and it would not shoot for crap.I took it in to a gunsmith and had him freefloat the barrel, then I took the spring out of the trigger and replaced it with a spring from a Bic pen and what do you know, that gun will shoot clover leafs at 100, and sometimes 200 when I do my part.My thoughts on the M77 is that they are good guns for the money, some of them just need some extra TLC.

Like many others here, my first bolt action was a Ruger M77 in the 1970's. Mine was a 30-06 Roundtop with sights, and the action used the same scope bases as a Remington 700. The triggers were fine adjustable mechanisms back then, and the tang safety and PF action are as slick and functional for North American deer hunting as anyone could ask. And right out of the box it would put 150 grain Bronze Points from Remington factory ammo into 1/2 MOA (3 shots) all day.

I still have it, but it wears a Brown Precision stock shaped just like the original Ruger factory wood stock. And it still shoots tiny little groups with 150 grain Remington factory loads or my handloads.

I own more Ruger rifles than any other. I love them. The new Mark II M77 stainless (as in .338 WinMag size) is what I made my .416 Taylor out of. Perfect for my intentions. Some might not like the 26" Shilen stainless No.4 sporter barrel, but it allows 75 grains of RL-15 to push a 400 grain Hornady RNSP to 2415 fps with no pressure signs from the little Taylor case, and points like a magic wand.

My only gripe with any Ruger rifle is that blasted recoil plate mechanism on the barrels of the 77 Magnum Action rifles (as in .375 H&H and .416 Rigby). But they work, and I dearly love the rest of the rifle, integral rib, etc. The most accurate rifle I own is a fat barreled Ruger M77 Magnum in .416 Rigby.

A cracked stock from the lack of a true primary action recoil lug on these rifles (The Big Magnum Action) should be of no concern with 375 H&H rifles, but I would be anxious with the 416 Rigby and 458 WinMag or Lott versions.

If mine ever cracks, some epoxy and brass or steel pins or rods will be hidden away inside that beautiful stock. And that is something I will lovingly do myself for that most accurate rifle I own.

I did have a bum experience with a Ruger rifle one time: the Ultralight M77 in .270 Win. That rifle shot groups the size of Elmer's cowboy hat at 100 yards. The barrel was like a pencil. I traded it in pronto with no attempts to rectify any "issues."

[ 02-16-2003, 23:23: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

I was reading thru some of this old thread and had to add my "Amen" to Allen Day's comments. I too am a fan of Ruger's 77 rifle. I also believe getting a good one, now or the old model is an absolute crap shoot. I've always liked the feel of the Ruger, but the specimens I've had in the past were dismal shooters, save for two. My neighbor and hunting buddy had a 77 VT Laminated 22/250 that would shoot 1/2" 200 yard groups consistantly. I swear, we've done it several times. At 100 yards the holes were barely bigger than bullet diameter. The second is my latest leap of faith for Ruger. I bought a new 77 Stainless Laminated with the Jacaranda color laminated stock in 270. After four shots to get the crud out of the barrel and cleaning after each shot, I got a 4 shot 3/4" group. A few days later I got back to back 1/2" 3 shot groups at 100 yards. It seems to shoot almost anything well.
Man, I sure wish they all shot like this. This is the first one I've had the confidence in to order a Timney trigger for.
I have had several tang safety models and they shot horribly. I am still looking for a 7X57 tang model that will shoot good. I guess I'll just have to keep trying. For now I'll shoot my 270, and hang on to it.
Good luck.

Gustavo: I've owned several Rugers, there are currently three in my inventory. One of them, the 416 Rigby is INCREDIBLY accurate to the point of being boring. I mean constant 1/2" groups or less. The other is a M-77 MKII in 35 Wheelen and that one is about a 1.25" shooter. The third is an old model with the Manlicher stock in 250 Savage that I bought for my son as his first rifle. That one is about a 1" shooter. All with handloads. Although I do like Model 70 better, Rugers are fantastic rifles. And oh yes one more thing. Like Allen, I too had a superbly shooting 338 stanless laminate that I gave to my father in law for bear hunting. HE loves it. That one is a 1" shooter with 250gr Hornadys. Good choice! jorge

I've always disliked Rugers because I've never owned an accurate one (and I've owned several).
None that I've owned would hit a barn from the inside with the doors closed.

The Ruger 77 is a fine firearm, and there is not much not to like for the $, except that its heavier and more expensive than a Savage, which is still more likely to shoot well right out of the box. Of course, the Savage is uniformly ugly and not CRF, so its a matter of taste.

Once you get to true big bore and Safari Rifles, the CZ wins hands down over any US rifle under $2000. It can still be had for under $800.

My 2 cents - over the last twenty or so years, I've owned several 77's, starting with the 'tang safety' (all in 25-06), now a Mkii stainless/laminate in 270win. All these rifles hve worn Leupold scopes, and have been superbly acccurate, but NOT with factory ammo. To give you an idea, I even rebarrelled one of my earlier 25-06's with a Shilen barrel, tight chamber, didn't shoot any better than the Ruger barrel - in fact it was a PIA, OK on the range, but in the field, wouldn't chamber half the time. THE GOOD NEWS!! MkII purchased in Sept 2000, in 270win, wouldn't shoot crap with factory (inculding Supreme) ammo. Handloads, using 110 and 130g bullets, AR2209 qnd 2213SC powdwers, will put 3 shots into a clover leaf at 100 yards, to the same point of impact at both 100 and 200 yards!!! Rifle wears a Leupold VariX II 3-9x40, has a Timney trigger and has had the action bedded. I couldn't be more delighted!!

Having owned numerous 77's both tang safety and MKII I can only say that of all the US guns I have owned they have been the least troublesome and the most consistently accurate. I hear critics all the time mention the trigger...well any competent gunsmith can take care of that in a heartbeat for about the same price as it would take to fix the trigger on a Remington and Winchester,Weatherby which I have also owned and which don't come from the factory with 3 lb crisp triggers. I would also have to rate their customer service as excellent and as good as can be expected taking in account the number of firearms they produce. I think the critics of this fine rifle are making a whole lot out of nothing IMHO.

I've had four Rugers - all were good shooters and looked and felt good. Don't know what you people are referring to when you say the 'ugly' and bad feeling 'paddle' stocks - maybe someone can fill me in on this one! What I really like the looks of in the new Ruger catalog is the stainless RS laminated models. I may have stated this elsewhere in one of these forums but I am seeking some user information on the newer laminated stainless RS Rugers in the bigger calibers such as the .338 - and if so can you compare with one of the new Winchesters in the same caliber! Thanks for any useful input.

[ 06-23-2003, 23:56: Message edited by: sizzlebird ]

I've owned three Rugers. They were a tang safety 30-06, MKII .223 which was a stainless/laminate and a wood/blue .280. All have been good shooters. I replaced the trigger with a Timney on the .280, had a 'smith hone the trigger on the .223, and the tang safety was adjusted to ~3.25# pull. All shot very well. Maybe I've won the crapshoot compared to others. One thing I really like about Ruger rifles is the stock design. They fit me well for a factory gun. They feel good and point naturally. I like the safety, CRF and integral rings. Although not perfect (think trigger), with a little work they can be very good shooters. JMO.

Joe

Since this topic has been brought to new life,and since I missed it the frist time around I just had to chime in.
As far as Rifles go I prefer the A-bolts to all others,with a VERY STRONG LOVE of the Win 70(all of them) and the RUGER M-77 both being in a very close tie for second.
The only reason for this is I prefer the Tang mounted safety of the A- Bolt over the 3 postion bolt mounted safety of the Win and Newer Ruger 77 Mark 11.If Ruger had not changed there Safety
they would be #1 on my list.
I have as yet to either own or shoot a Ruger 77 Mark 11 but would be very disapionted if it didn't Shoot very very well out of the Box,as the older Tang safety models that I have shot are some of the most Accurate Rifles I have shot.
I have shot the older model in 7x57mm,264WinMag,
257Roberts and 243 win.The last 2 being very Accurate with 1" down to 1 hole groups.The 7x57 almost as good at 1" to 1 1/2" groups and some alot better depending on the load.the .264 about the same.
I've been ask to Zero a friend of mine Mark 11 in .270 Win,if I get a chance to do this anytime soon I'll post the results good or bad.
I still say you can't beat a Ruger for what you pay for them.

Agred, i own a Ruger M77 in 270win, this rifle was made mid 80's


To this day, it is my favoruite rifle, smooth action, accurate, looks beautiful,plenty of rounds through it andstill goes strong

My next rifle will be a ruger 100%

you guys keep basking the 77 .. keeps the prices down