Actually a .0001-.0002 choke at the muzzle is desirable.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:

SSDAVE, It must have been one of the many "master smiths" at Remington that allowed that perfect barrel to get out the door...Hmmmm.

No master smiths at Remington, I'd have to agree that their barrels are some of the worst that I've seen. But, the price is cheap to make them and they're in the mass consumption business. I can easily believe their barrel had a rough or constricted spot near the muzzle.

My comment was based on the concept. Barrels that have a slight choke at the muzzle are generally the most accurate barrels. Many master gunsmiths set the length of a barrel by carefully slugging the barrel, and cutting it off at a point where the choke is tighest near the muzzle. Some barrel makers air gage their barrels and mark the choked end as the muzzle to facilitate this. Others don't believe in it. I know of at least one well known benchrest .22 lr gunsmith that says that outside a smooth throat transition from the chamber, the choke in the barrel is the best indicator of an accurate barrel.

I have no doubt that your barrels shot better lapped. I think lapping usually will help. Your gunsmith doesn't have to have the reason for lapping right to make it work, he could lap to smooth the grooves, he could lap to smooth the throat, he can lap to remove a choke, he can do like a lot of top barrel makers do and lap to add a choke, it is all the same, the lapping helps, the reason he does it is irrelevant. We all may be wrong about the reason it work, it just does.

But, a lot of top barrel makers and fitters feel that a slight lapped in choke helps the accurary, not hinders it.

dave

ssdave,
You are pretty smooth. +1
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Actually a .0001-.0002 choke at the muzzle is desirable.
Butch

I can see it now. RemChokes on the M-700 in the future.

I wish you would have told me all this earlier.
I would have been more than happy to sell you this desirable barrel.....for let's say a mere $200. Plus shipping of course.

RAE,
If you doubt the choke theory you should try a few barrels with reverse choke - that is with the muzzle slightly larger than the breech end.

Rae59,
Nobody is trying to step on your weenie. Nobody wants your barrel, even free post paid.
If your hunting barrel shoots 1MOA and you can aim it, you shouldn't have any trouble downing an animal.
Butch

Butch, I really didn't think you wanted the barrel. It was just my odd sense of humor (with a touch of sarcasim) coming into play.
I really didn't take the latter that way although I was wondering what the Ha HaHah was all about. Now I know. Anyway, the barrel accuacy is now much more acceptable....can't feel no (desirable) tight spot at the end.
But you know, Howie didn't look upon a choked barrel very favorbaly either. Wonder why?

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
Butch, I really didn't think you wanted the barrel. It was just my odd sense of humor (with a touch of sarcasim) coming into play.
I really didn't take the latter that way although I was wondering what the Ha HaHah was all about. Now I know. Anyway, the barrel accuacy is now much more acceptable....can't feel no (desirable) tight spot at the end.
But you know, Howie didn't look upon a choked barrel very favorbaly either. Wonder why?

A lot of jacketed bullet shooters do not know squat about barrel finish, bore diameter and bore taper. On the other hand the tight wads that shoot cast bullets slug their barrels and know the groove diameters end to end. They also know the dimensions of the chamber neck and lead etc all in an effort to make their cast bullets fit properly and shoot well.
Take a few passes over at castboolits.com, ASSRA, the LA cast bullet site, and the various BPCR sites. You will find folks that know quite a bit about choke bores, lapping and such.

SR4759, if I am reading a article on Lilja's website correctly (and interpretting it correctly), they do not put a choke on their barrels. It states on their website that Lilja guarentees their barrels to one ten thousandths of an inch (.0001") in internal barrel uniformity.If I'm not interpretting this correctly, I'm sure one of our posters will set me straight...again.

I should be talking to Krieger either this week or the next. I will ask them about this also......... just for grins.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
SR4759, if I am reading a article on Lilja's website correctly (and interpretting it correctly), they do not put a choke on their barrels. It states on their website that Lilja guarentees their barrels to one ten thousandths of an inch (.0001") in internal barrel uniformity.If I'm not interpretting this correctly, I'm sure one of our posters will set me straight...again.

I should be talking to Krieger either this week or the next. I will ask them about this also......... just for grins.

Meaning what?
What Kreiger does or does not do means nothing to the average jacketed bullet shooter that has never slugged a barrel.

Lapping in a choke is more prevelant in lead bullet barrels, and makers that cater to lead bullet shooters. Manufacturers that cater to jacketed bullet shooters don't care to go to the extra trouble, as most jacket bullet shooters don't care. Rimfire .22 barrels are particularly prized with choke lapping, as there are a lot of good shooters and builders that have anecdotally proved that lapped choke barrels shoot smaller groups and win more. That could be because a lot of good shooters believe in it, and shoot choked barrels, or it could be an advantage to the choke. Hard to tell the difference sometimes. Bill Calfee, one of the top rimfire benchrest gunsmiths, uses lapped choke barrels, and repeatedly slugs and marks the barrels and cuts off both muzzle and breech to place the chamber and muzzle at spots he picks in the barrel. Like I said before, not all manufacturers believe in a tapered bore approach, but some do.

Here's what Benchmark says about lapping in their barrels:

Benchmark Barrels of Arlington, Washington has earned a stellar reputation for its rimfire barrels. Many of the most accurate rimfire BR rigs in the country sport Benchmark barrels. Benchmark pioneered the 2-groove barrel, and its reverse-taper blanks, in 2-groove, 3-groove, and 6-groove, are in high demand. Benchmark is known for the quality of its lapping work and its ability to craft a precise progressive taper (or “choke”) along the full length of the barrel. Typically, Benchmark’s rimfire barrels are hand-lapped with .0006-.0007″ of internal bore taper. This is an even, slight reduction of bore diameter–not just a choke at the end.

Here's what Douglas says about choke:

You will find that most of our basic barrels are marked for the muzzle end. In the process of air gaging we mark the tight end as being the muzzle. Some people feel that the taper should be to the muzzle, others say that it makes no difference. At any rate the barrel is marked so the choice is yours.

All that said, an accidental tight (or rough) spot in a remington bore isn't likely to increase accuracy. A carefully lapped in choke might.

dave