Guys, I was just wandering the pathways of my brain (short and jumbled) and came across a question.

sometimes you see a great stock pattern and would like to get a copy of it, but it is a nice stock and whether yours or somebody elses you don't want to mess it up. Typically, what is the damage to the stock being copied when you put it on a duplicator?

I have some stocks I'd like copied but am not worried about messing them up as they aren't nice other than the pattern, but I'd hate to borrow one from somebody and it being messed up.

Thanks guys

Red

I would bet that our distinguished moderator could answer that question for you.

I really strongly suggest to people that we find a throw away (there's generally one out there) as ven the most careful dupe can bugger checkering, mar finishes, and bump corners...

I don't like copying a "to be working" Stock, but I will.. it just costs more and there will be damage.. some, little, none, or even if the pattern fails (weird cracks) ... I try not to do use useful stocks, if i can help it

jeffe

Rick,
thanks. and did!!!!

I talked to a couple duplicators that said they can copy a nice stock and not damage it at all. Special pads and tips of some sort...? As I remember it might leave a mark on he forend tip .
Seems possible to me with alittle carefulness .
Even tapeing over the checkering as to not damage the diamonds

I've had working stocks copied with nary a mark. But, then again I've heard others in addition to Jeffe say marking is possible. In my case, it was a well used stock that wouldn't have bothered me if another mark showed up (none did).

I would ask the duplicator beforehand as each may have their own methods. In addition, if I had a really valuable stock that I wouldn't want marred I'd think hard about it. Nobody is perfect. On the other hand, how else are you going to get a copy. After all, not all stocks have duplicates floating around.

Why not just make a stylis from delron, nylon or some simular material to protect the stock that is being
copied?

GSP, ZLR

let me be clear... i don't gouge the hell out of a stock, and have turned a few from working patterns, that the customers were perfectly okay with the results, from both the pattern and target stocks.. but it took LOADS more time (about 3 times) than from when working with a pattern...

What I am talking about is the potential for lines, creases, and other "things" that are pretty unpredictable... an easy "for instance" is punky wood... even on a good stock, it happens, as a checkering guy...



i am not certain I can do a good copy and not have it mark the stock.. and it WILL have a mark on the nose, without a doubt...



a man has to know his limits, and I can't get close enough to copy it well and be CERTAIN it won't mark the stock.

I will say that

quote:

Seems possible to me with alittle carefulness

"a little carefulness" sort of implies a lack of carefulness, btw, and might seem to be a little condensending, though I am certain it wasn't meant that way. If you would forward me the names of the guys that can do it with nary a mark, i would like to talk to them and find out what "special pads and tips" .. or whatever, they use to improve results.

So, i guess if a fella was willing to pay for the additional TIME (carefulness?) we could find someone who specializes in exactly that and send them to them. Myself, I would rather have a happy customer, even if it's of someone else, than the couple bucks and a pissed off customer

So, I try to talk people out of using a good stock for a pattern, rather than have hard feelings later, and make darn sure they understand the risk.



btw, I am in the market for a whitworth express stock, with the english cheekpiece, for a pattern.

Doug,
you can dip in plasidip, perhaps...
nylon and delrin...

nylon bends (very bad)

delrin is harder than wood... same issues as steel, with brittleness and yes, i know for a FACT it can break at 1/4", thank goodness it was my wood I was working with.

jeffe

Personally, I make it a habit not to argue with some one who has done something that I have not. I have driven a stock duplicator (but work from the blank usually). If you tape the stock up well and are very careful, damage will be minimized. But if you are very anal about your stock, I promise you can find a mark or two on even the most careful trace job.

Jeffe-I have an old Whitworth stock you can copy, but please send it back. It is off a .375 Whitworth from the late '80s. Just drop me a line and we can work out the shipping.

Marc,
thanks.. I sent you a PM


jeffe

I don’t see how you could run any type of effective/practical stylus over a wooden stock and be 100% assured of not leaving a mark, dent, or gouge.

It would seem that any stylus that was soft enough to not do that would also be too soft to be effective since it would tend to “give†when it probably shouldn’t be doing that.

I sent a couple of working stocks to Jeffe for his use in creating patterns and they came back to me fine. One was a Winchester Featherweight and it had a place on the very tip where it was put in the duplicator, but that was completely explained beforehand and perfectly acceptable to me. The other was a Rem model 7 synthetic and I can't tell he ever touched it. It can be done. Jeffe does work as good as I have seen for duplication.

As Doug mentioned above, I use the delrin stylus approach to prevent stock blemishing. I have copied stocks that the owner didn't want scratched, it does require a little more time due to the lighter cuts. I use a ball nose stylus and cutter to do most of the external shaping. The delrin ball nose stylus wont scratch the stock, if it does, your too heavy handed. The most important point is to make light touches on the pattern, which requires a duplicator with ease of movement and an operator with a little feel. The forend does pose more of a challenge. My duplicator has centers on the footstock end, so to keep from destroying the forend, I made an offset center that still allows me to contour the forend without hurting the pattern. The tail end of the center screws down into the bbl channel, so the pattern stock ends up with a screw hole in the bbl channel. Its not to hard to protect the pattern you just need to tell the operator you don't want it scuffed.

Chad

Chad,
excellent news...

please email me your contact information, and I'll forward anyone who's stock MUST be mark free to you.. sounds like you have got it down. I know my limits, and I can NOT promise no marks.

This will be the case of I would rather have a happy customer (even if they pay someone else to do work) than a few bucks and an unhappy customer.

jeffe

I have done 4 so far, not enough to rule out accidents but I will share what I do none the less.

First of all I cover the stock in two layers of masking tape.

During research I found the round stylus could leave marks in the stock if there was too much pressure. I made a delrin round stylus with the very bottom flattened slightly so the contact area is enlarged. It made quite a difference. No it doesn't match the cutter precisely but in the scheme of things the difference is slight IMO.

Like Chad I fashioned an offset center for the forend that screws into the barrel channel and butts up against the leading edge of the stock forend. I glued a small piece of leather to the surface of the offset where it meets the stock.

Jim

Jeff, email sent.

You should try the round delrin stylus and round cutter. You will be surprised, it won't mark up the stock if you are gentle with it. I suspect you could copy a stock with no damage, I've seen stocks you've cut, and it doesn't look like you get rough with them.

BTW, have you got a good selection of patterns? I have a few bbled actions here that need stocks. The ones I need the most are a CZ 550 magnum, and an interarms mini. Let me know, I may have a pattern or two you want and we can work a swap.

Chad

Dang, Jeffe, I offered the use of my Whitworth .375(80's vintage) to you in an e-mail and a pm 6 months ago and never heard a word! Mine is already set up as a pattern stock and has the bolt handle cut out filled and was built up a little w/glass to make a shelf under the bolt stop by Bobby Mitchell. You can save shipping and I bet we can work out a trade on turning a blank I have. Let me know. Lee.