What options are there for a mauser 98 (VZ-24) that is the proper dimensions for a 458? Opening up the mil bottom metal is inadequate at best.

Paul:

Assuming you are refering to a 458 WM, I did the same thing. .458WM on a VZ-24 action. Fortunately, I was able obtain a beautiful FN bottom metal that fit the action and .458WM perfectly. No major work needed. A little ramp area smoothing up. Very similar to an Argentine 1909 bottom piece. I was hoping to avoid opening up a military piece as well. I got the piece from a collector so I can't help you on sourcing one.

A Mark X bottom metal might be an option as well.


Good luck.

RCG

I was hoping I would have to spring for custom bottom metal, as the gun is a rough duty gun, not a showpiece. I just want properly dimensioned bottom metal.

Anyone know if Mark X or whitworth bottom metal is available?

Davis May at yamyor38@pld.com did have some of the new Daly Trigger Guards. They look like the late MKX with the cross pin.

i guess i'm the only person on the whole planet who likes the original mauser bottom metal. w/ a controlled feed action you don't need a hinged floor plate to safely unload. it's a lot of cost for cosmetics. if the shape of the guard is that unsightly (isn't to me; look at pics of prewar brit and german sporters. is what a mauser is supposed to look like) they can be reshaped to more graceful contours.

The problem isn't the appearance of the bottom metal, as I said it's a working gone, ugly is as ugly does. That said, ugly or no I want proper geometric configuration of the ammo in the mag.

The problem is the magazine as configured for a X57 round is too narrow, too tapered and too short for a 458 round. I could completely cut off the original box, make up a new one of the proper dimensions, weld up the follower and then machine it down to proper dimensions, but I just don't have the time for such mechanations. If I could find a factory M-98 magazine for a 458 for a reasonable price, I'd be in fat city.

Is Mark X or whitworth bottom metal a drop in? Any of the smiths have such lying around their shops that they'd be willing to part with?

Numrich's has hinged bottom metal for sale. It is finished rough, but is suitable for a "duty" gun. If you want fancy, you will have to put some work into the Numrich bottom metal.

http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?chrProductSKU=881550A

Gentlemen,

One thing I'd like to point out as a friendly reminder is to avoid Numrich's

Trigger Guard, Lengthened - Steel Trigger Guard Lengthened For Magnum Calibers W

I bought one these last year thinking it would be good to try with my budget 8x68s project. Turns out, yes it is long enough. But NO, it ain't wide enough and there's no way to widen it without some cutting and welding. A good friend bought a commercial aftermarket triggerguard for his 8x68s around the same time and I believe his is good in all aspects. He did shell out some money on his though. I'm going to bite the bullet and buy proper (expensive) bottom metal when I can. I just don't see anyway around it.

One other though: Paul you might do well to contact Davis about a magnum triggerguard. I've done lots of business with him and he's a stand up guy. I have one of his 30-06 triggerguards and would be happy to show you some pictures of it via email if you'd like. Let me know.

Is a blind mag out of the question?

Paul

The Whitworth .375 I have on hand has bottom metal essentially the same dimentions as My VZ-24 , other than a cut out on the front to get the extra length .

So I would doubt that a mark X magazine would get you where you want to be , although they probably do have a little more length than the mitary magazine . I do believe it would fit up to the VZ without much trouble .

Paul,

I'm doing the same winter project as you. I have a Mark X bottom and have experimented with my 300 Win rounds in it. I can get three in but that means 2 down when the bolt closes.

The magazine box tapers at the front so I'm a bit concerned how the 458s will fit. I have ordered a box of them from Midway which should be in tomorrow. Will do a quick check and let you know.

The Mark X will fit a 98 but its shorter in front of the forward screw. You'll have a gap is the stock is inletted for a 98.

Best regards,

Dan

i'm curious as to the origin of the belief that m98 mag boxes aren't wide enough for 458's. i had a whitworth 458 and if that magazine box were anywider than the boxes on other mark x's i had i couldn't tell it. i don't have a 458 now but dug out some components and loaded up 3 dummies w/ 500 gr fmj hornady's, crimped in the crimp groove. took the 300winmag i built on a vz-24 in which i did myself all the mods except bolt face, including lengthening the magazine 0.10" in the front. stacked the 458 dummies in. perfect fit. tried to feed. virtually perfect feeding as is. the only, and i mean flat only end of sentence period exclamation point issue whatsoever is a little more relief needs to be ground out from the underside of the feed rails at the fwd end where were hitting the bullets. pushed the noses over a little causing the rounds to try to come up too soon. EVEN WITH THAT the rounds snaked right out, hit the chamber mouth and chambered (as far as they'd go in a 300winmag chamber anyway, which is pretty far). so if i can do this in my garage the 1st time i try it (the gun feeds 300winmags flawlessly, btw) where does this nonsense originate abt the difficulty of getting m98's to feed belted mags in general and 458's in particular? some gunsmith trying to maintain the mystique of his abilities? or just needing a gunsmith higher up in the food chain? this ain't rocket science, people.

Paul,
on my mexican mauser, i left the mag.. and only feed it 405s on the short cannelure... had to work on the ramp

jeffe

A properly dimensioned mag will have the cases lying in a nice triangle, in my VZ box they are arranged closer to a straight stack, and due to the difference in case taper vs mag taper, the noses of the round overlap eachother.

Try this in your 300, load the 3 rounds in the mag and pull the bolt back swiftly, do the rounds stay put, or pop out? Just because they load straight in to the rear of a chamber doesn't mean they'll load smooth all the way in, especially the last round in the mag.

Paul, yes AND no and yes it does mean that. as to the latter, a 458's dimensions allow it to go all the way into the chamber till the bullet nose hits the neck. a 300winmag chamber will take all but the last inch or so of a 458 so i can say w/ absolute certainty that they do in fact chamber just fine.

as to the 1st part of your question, only the one round on the left in the stack does that. the 2 on the right will not, at least that i can cause by trying. turns out is also true of 300winmags only to a lesser extent. popping off the floorplate and looking at underside of rcvr/mag box wall juncture is pretty obvious i rmvd more metal on the one side which is holding the rds in so i got a little more work there.

curiously i had the same problem w/ a post 64 m70 african. except i think it would dump whichever round was on deck next thru the whole mag full. and just trying something out of desparation, a standard GI M98 follower fixed it. put the original back in when i sold it as i figured some anal types just wouldn't be able to accept that. near as i could tell, the steeper slope on the m98 follower did a better job of pushing the rds into the mag box wall whereas the factory follower let them move twds the center enough that they slipped out from under the feed rails.

so i got a little more grinding/polishing to do but that's just tweaking. need to try the same thing in my 338mag which shaw did. i know it's never exhibited that trait.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
What options are there for a mauser 98 (VZ-24) that is the proper dimensions for a 458? Opening up the mil bottom metal is inadequate at best.

Paul. my vz-24 in 458wm has standard military mag box I lengthend to 3.360" with some off front & some off rear, with a file by hand. Where the round enters the narrow part of the rails had to be opened about .010-.020 as I recall. A wisner mag follower & under cut the left rail Cautiously! Three down & 1 in the pipe
Feeds 350-600g rounds Flawlessly upside down sideways fast slow!!

what i did on this 300winmag magazine was to cut out the front web - along the sides lengthwise, not side to side - so the sides of the magazine box stayed the same length. then welded a pc of .090 or .100 stock (doesn't really matter) to the front of the sidewalls. this effectively added exactly the thickness of the front web to the inside dimension. only required removing abt .10" from the back edge of the feed ramp. as many mausers over the years that have been opened up for 375 lgt rounds there's no way this is significant structurally and was a very fast fix. accomplishes the same thing but less filing altho you avioded much feed ramp alteration.

Paul-

I understand your question.

I decided to fabricate bottom metal for a 404 Jeffery. It's a lot of work, but will hold five down, I hope (not finished,only had the project going one year )

It is evident by some of the posts that not everyone understands the geometry of a proper Mauser box.

Allen Day has repeatedly preached this sermon.

Without going with custom metal, I don't think there is an easy fix.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by B Stephenson:
Paul-

I understand your question.

I decided to fabricate bottom metal for a 404 Jeffery. It's a lot of work, but will hold five down, I hope (not finished,only had the project going one year )
Have a good one!!
It is evident by some of the posts that not everyone understands the geometry of a proper Mauser box.

Allen Day has repeatedly preached this sermon.

Without going with custom metal, I don't think there is an easy fix.

Bob

Does proper geometry mean more capacity? Or does proper geometry mean perfect function. We are talking 3.340 belted mag in a standard mauser 98 right? Am I missing something?? I might be one of the dont understands

tsturm, i'm sure he's referring to me. i've never been impressed by anal retentitive crap. if a gun works and feeds then it is proper. i've got 2 98's for belted mags, one of which i did myself and they both work fine. there have been thousands upon thousands of 98's modified and chambered for belted mags which gave the owners complete satisfaction for decades.

if your 458 is as reliable as you say then the correct response to critics who say it isn't proper is to tell them to shove off. "proper" is their opinion, nothing more. most of this crap is a mystique people like to maintiain around gun work, that it's some sort of dark art which can only be accomplished by the select few knowing the secrets.

when i can take hand tools (plus a wire welder) and get a 98 to feed belted mags my 1st attempt and on top of that have it feed a round the rifle was not intended by me to feed in the first place i don't need anyone telling me it isn't "proper".

If you will reread Paul's first post, you will see that he was asking about bottom metal with the proper (as designed by the originator) dimensions for a box for a belted mag.

I did not say that other systems would not feed a cartridge from the box to the chamber.

There is only one dimension that is proper for each cartridge.

There is no dark secret about this.... It has been discussed here many times.

Bob