Got a project mulling around in my head...I've got a new CZ 550 standard action, a pre-threaded chambered barrel on order from Lothar Walther in 376 Steyr, and a blank on the way...

I've inlet, bedded, altered, finished, refinished,etc... quite a few stocks and want to carve out my own this time....for the hell of it. I do have Westbrook's ? book.

Where do you start??? I have the information on the inletting and shaping aspect, but what do you use for the initial layout on the blank?? Do you just start with the top line of the stock and go from there on measurements such as LOP, comb height and angle, etc... and then just work on making everything flow? Is there a book out there that explains this well enough, or even some blueprints?

I'm looking at a med/hvy 22" barrel and was thinking of an express style with the scalloped drop around the floorplate and an ebony forend tip, lug and the barrel, shadow line cheekpiece, etc... something pretty classic and 'purdy' for a low power scope and possibly express sights. I did order the barrel in stainless, so it's not going to be a 'true' classic but clean lines none-the-less..

Any thoughts/recommendations???

Thank you for ANY info..

You must first square the stock sides and top the make a center line from breach to forend , setting center line off to side for left or right handed or left handed measure distance from action bolt holes then drill 1/4 inch hole s threw stock now you need guide bolts for the inletting of barrel and action That should keep you busy for at least 2 weeks

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
You must first square the stock sides and top the make a center line from breach to forend , setting center line off to side for left or right handed or left handed measure distance from action bolt holes then drill 1/4 inch hole s threw stock now you need guide bolts for the inletting of barrel and action That should keep you busy for at least 2 weeks

Huh? That's about 30 minutes worth of work....oops! Nevermind. I didn't see the part about the inletting.

A blank stock will take 120 hrs by a pro to complete

quote:

Originally posted by concho:
A blank stock will take 120 hrs by a pro to complete

Concho,

Yeah, I misread your post and thought you meant the squaring and drilling would take 2 weeks. Read first, read carefully, then respond...read first, read carefully, then respond...think I've got it now. I'm lucky if I can get one done in less than 220 hours....but I just do it for fun.

Matt,

Good luck and keep asking questions! I have done several stocks and then outta the blue royally screwed up the last one! I'm stocking a CZ550 9.3x62 right now and am not gonna mess this one up!

You need to square the sides of the bland on a jointer. Make a pattern (mycarta, thin plywood, or plexiglass work well) of the profile by tracing carefully around a stock whose pattern you like or get one of Jerry Fisher's full size schematic drawings (they're wonderfully useful, art really...) Leave extra size around the tang area as the various actions tend to differ significantly there--easy to take later) Cut your chosen pattern out on a band saw--Now use this pattern to determine your layout on the side of your blank, take your time getting the grain flow as good as possible. Cut your blank out acording to the pattern you drew on it--cut the outside of your lines, you can always take more wood later. Draw your centerline as described, now's the time to work in castoff (see Wesbrook) and be sure to offset it for your cheekpiece. I usually put my forend tip on now and inlet it with the rest of the stock, others do it later. Use a dowling jig or some other guide to drill the dowl holes. Plane the tip true to the top line of the stock (preserve your centerline!) On the side of the stock draw out your inletting layout. I usually draw a vertical line representing the front of the trigger (established by determining its distance from the near edge of the grip cap) and work from that. However you do it make surt that the trigger is correct in relation to your grip and that your action screw hole locations are perfectly laid out. Drill from the top with the stock dead level in a vice on your press. You can rough out the inletting using router bits in your drill press but be conscious of the wood's grain flow--you'll often need to turn the stock around and cut from another direction to prevent nasty chip outs. I usually have the inletting profile drawn out on the side of the stock before I begin along with depths (just less than half depth). A 1/2 round ball bit run down the center of the barrel channel (1/2" deep, level the stock and support the forend) will quickly remove most of the wood there. From there follow Wesbrook on blacking in. I have also begun to use the band saw to remove some excess wood from the sides of the stock if it is to be trimmed down a bunch which speeds shaping. Remember that your grip cap, butt plate, width at the side of the action, and forend tip width are sacred and shaping's pretty straightforward.

Two weeks my (working for a living) ass...

Good luck and enjoy.

nothing to it - just carve away everything that doesn't look like a stock

It takes me less than 6 hours, BY HAND to be done with making a stock...

0:00 - find a "round-tuit" and get started
1:00 - finally plane it, and lay it out the way I would like it - PERFECT
1:15 - roughed out with the bandsaw perfectly in grain
2:30 - perfectly straight center line and inletting pins
3:00 - start inletting TOP of action .. this generally goes okay, if I remember to "hide" a couple scraps for cleanup
5:00 - finally have the action lined up and inletted... take it out of the vise and get my chisles
5:05 -- i've stuck a 1/2" in-cannal gouge into my left hand TWICE... and my right thigh (just once), bled all over the stock (blood stains walnut to EBONY btw)
5:21 -- Really rEally HAVE tO stop and clean up my wounds..
5:22 -- can't find any rubbing alcohol... I guess the SKYY vodka will have to do

5:30 after 8 minutes of screaming like a little girl .......
5:35 come to.... should NOT have poured the skyy right into that gouge in my leg... man, I am loosing alot of blood...

5:36 --i figure "well, if alcohol is supposed to be good on wounds on the OUTSIDE and I am just pouring it on shop rags anyway.. maybe if I just drank it, it would be better"

5:51 - well, the skyy is gone.. decide to gather up my work for the day

5:57 -- drop 3 lit whitetip matches into a pile blood and alcohol soaked shop rags, wood chips, and my $275 BBQ blank... warm my hands that are cold due to blood loss, just for the record.

5:59:01 -- remember I on sitting on the front porch... the wife hits me with an ABC extingisher ... passout from soffocation...


and that's how I am done with making a stock by hand in less than 6 hours
jeffe

I doubt that a Pro would take 120 hours to shape and inlet a stock. Maybe to completely shape, inlet, finish and checker a stock, but not to shape and inlet one. Pros that do these stocks over and over again have certainly developed working methods and shortcuts that lessen the time to make a stock. they know what they can get by with and what they can't get by with. They can be a bit more bold with the shaping rasp than a guy who is making his first or second stock.

I betcha a guy like Customstox can have one shaped and inletted in less than 40 hours working by hand, and a guy like Gunmaker can have one done using his Milling machine in 20 hours.

bravo Jeff

Here is some of the work and words of a real pro: Steven Dodd Hughes a.k.a SDH on the following thread:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp.../429105924#429105924

"DeBee, the barrel ws dressed down afterwards, the arcades are about .015" deep. Am using Daly's finish on the stock with "inter-cellular sealer". It is for a client and there are more than 250 bench hours invested (so far) plus barrel chambering, choking and boring."


A sidelock is more involved project than a bolt gun, but don't be at all surprised if you spend a couple hundred hours on you first from a blank project. I'm in the middle of my first gun from a block myself and will probably have a couple hundred hours invested from start to finish. You might be faster..............DJ

Gunmaker just sends it off to Darcy Echols. Time for packing: 1/2 hour.

Ok boys and girls , First I was talking to a person who I tried to explain what the first steps to carving a stock from a blank entailed , I don't assume he has a drill press ,Milling machine ,or a CNC program on the imaginary Milling machine , I assume he is doing everything with Rasps and chisels from scratch ! no machinery and no routers and ball mills , ALL HAND TOOLS ! If you want to Help the man do so ! as he asked ! since some of you think you can snap you fingers and a stock appears ! Make one and send a picture !

Concho, I did use a drill press to drill the 2 guide holes for the inletting pins, but in general I don't care for power tools. The finished gun in front is my last project that I made from a semi-inletted blank. The project is in back is my "from the block" project as of a few weeks ago. A few of my various hand tools are laying around in front and back.





I think that most pro's are going to use an pantograph instead of an apprentice to do the rough shaping. It is just a more practical way to produce a gunstock in a reasonable amount of time. That being said me and a lot of other learning stockmakers probably need to build a stock or two from a blank for the experience and to learn in the process. We'll see how many more I want to do from a block...... ................DJ

quote:

since some of you think you can snap you fingers and a stock appears !

No snap, just a click.

Fine looking stock DJ when you start the blank time every step and see how long it takes you to achieve the results of the finished one in this picture , Nose cap ,recoil pad, pistol grip cap, cheek piece , I'm betting over 120 hrs sanded to 320 finish . Please keep time and let us know with pictures Thanks

dj good for you,don't get in a hurry or you will get discoraged.It took me 3 months to do mine.It was on a 74 sharps,started in june and finished the first week in sept.second week of september I killed nice bull elk.just go slow and steady,don't over think it,and you will experience an excitment few will ever know
good luck to you
mark

Thanks guys for the tips. As for equipment, I have a drill press, bandsaw, and two grinders, a 6X48 belt/12" disk and a 2X72" belt grinder with an 8" contact wheel (won't use that one on the stock though).

I was more curious on where the pattern came from, whether most had derived them from their own drawings and measurements, or as Snowcat said, use another pattern you like. I REALLY like that stock on yours djpaintles, very nice.

Thanks all for the comments, and I'll have to look at some of Fisher's schematics and see if there is one I want...probably a good way to go. I was considering making a pattern by drawing the barreled action and measuring it up and doing my own design based off suggested measurements in Westbrook's books and may still do so, but this will get me started in the planning process. The barrel is due in early April, so I've got time to scheme.

I aint brave enough to cut one from a blank just yet, I'll stock with duplicators

quote:

Originally posted by matt salm:
Thanks guys for the tips. As for equipment, I have a drill press, bandsaw, and two grinders, a 6X48 belt/12" disk and a 2X72" belt grinder with an 8" contact wheel (won't use that one on the stock though).

I was more curious on where the pattern came from, whether most had derived them from their own drawings and measurements, or as Snowcat said, use another pattern you like. I REALLY like that stock on yours djpaintles, very nice.

Thanks all for the comments, and I'll have to look at some of Fisher's schematics and see if there is one I want...probably a good way to go. I was considering making a pattern by drawing the barreled action and measuring it up and doing my own design based off suggested measurements in Westbrook's books and may still do so, but this will get me started in the planning process. The barrel is due in early April, so I've got time to scheme.

You should have a conversation with your fellow Wisconsinite (is that correct) that goes by the name of Grandview on this board. He has a lot of information on laying out stocks.

Here is what I have learned from reading some of his stuff over the years.

1. you have some given lines already. For example, as you have already noted, you have the bottom metal, which will form a line all the way to the forend of the stock, and you have the barrel bore centerline, which forms the top of the stock.

2. You have your size. From the size of your body you determine the drop, pull, and pitch of the stock, using a given to start from, which is the center of the trigger.

3. You know how big your hands are. That gives you the grip pull from the center of the trigger.

4. If you then know what size grip cap you are going to use you can draw in the size of the grip, and once you know that you can take the center of that grip and go straight up and draw in the nose comb.

5. You know the height of the nose comb becasue it wants to be just below the bolt so the bolt wont hit it when it is cycled all the way back, and then according to your body, as mentioned before, you know the amount of drop you want to the heel, which depends on whether you are going to mount a scope or not, and how high the scope will be mounted.

6. If you know the size of the buttplate or recoil pad you are using, you can then measure down from the heel to the toe, and then connect that line back to the grip. this is where you also determine how much pitch you want.

As I said, these are notes I took from Grandviews writings, but in looking at a stock, it seems almost intuitive the the first thing you need to do is draw an accurate rendition of the barreled action you are going to use, with the exact centerline of the bore, and the exact placement of the trigger. Quite a bit seems to flow from there depending on your particular size and whether the rifle will be scoped or not, and if it will, how high the scope will be. I would assume that somebody with a real long neck and a large body would have a much different custom stock than a small fellow with a short neck, which would negate using standard measurements taken from a book.

______________

By the way, what are you using that big belt grinder for. Are you making your own custom knives?

I'd be glad to trace my pattern and send it on. It closely follows Fisher's but with a slightly more open grip. When I do a Mauser I drop the comb a touch too. Let me know.
Do consider buying Fisher's drawing from Brownell's. He offer's a Mauser pattern and it's drawn to scale allowing you to refer/take measurements directly from the drawing as you proceed. Really helpful.

DJ-Beautiful work (nice wood too)! I envy the quality of your tools...
Who did the duplicating for you on the finished piece?

22WRF, Yes, I have in the past and do on occasion make a few knives. Fixed blade hunting types, hidden and full tang. Mostly use O1, but have a stock of D2 steel from Jimmy Lile's shop I believe I bought from K&G. Apparently when he passed away they bought a lot of his stock.

Snowcat, that's a very gracious offer, and if you wouldn't mind I'd appreciate a line drawing of your design. I don't imagine I'll be starting the woodwork for another couple months so there would be no rush. Thanks.

PM me your mailing address.

Snowcat, Russ Wilson in Oregon did the original pantograph on my finished gun. Here's a pic of the rough blank after I put ebony on the tip and grip and inletteted the metal but before I recut the cheekpiece:



So far I've spent a good 3 weeks inlettting the action into the block and still I'm not quite there yet! Lots of onlookers have commented on how I'm nuts for doing it, but I just tell them that this one is as much about the Process as it is about the Project. I'm doing it to learn and gain experience, I have plenty of rifles to hunt with.
......I am about as bad a hand tool nut as I am a gun nut. I'm not sure if I mess with guns to play with tools or play with tools to mess with guns........... ............DJ

Love the color of that wood. Me, if I have two nickels to rub together I buy some rifle related googaw. My tools are embarrasing. Functional, but that's about it. I'm leaning the other way. Done about enough stocks from the blocks to fully realize the shear genius of of a Hoenig....