Are there any smiths out there currently creating & selling proper dimension magazine
boxes which are NOT part of a package deal requiring the purchase of bottom
metal, floor plate, follower, mag. spring etc...... or the whole rifle?

I was thinking Win M70 & cz550 magnum actions specifically and calibers such as the .300
win mag, .300 H&H, .338 win mag, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby.

I would like to use the bottom metal that came w/ the rifles and just replace the factory
one size fits all 'tin' boxes with those that are properly made of hopefully of much
stouter material.

I am not expecting or looking for a 'drop in' parts here but, rather high quality boxes I could
have a good smith install in my rifles....

Does such an animal exists? If not who would you recommend I contact to make them.....?

Lastly, where can I get the correct dimensions and or the formulas to run the numbers for the
various cartridges myself(dangerous thought)......

Regards,
Dave

I believe this is the Mauser formula, posted by djpaintless in another thread some time back.

"Multiply the cosine of 30 degrees (.866) by the case head (or belt) diameter, then add the head diameter to that product. For example a .375 H&H is .532 across the belt. So .866x..532 = .460 (+.532) = .992. This width should taper with the cartridge. Use the same formula for the width at the mouth. (This formula came from a RifleShooter magazine March/April 04 and is attributed to D'Archy Echols)"

For the cartridges you mentioned in the actions you mentioned I don't think there is a need for a costly custom box, since those rifles are chambered in those cartridges* already you should be able to just get a different mag box if you are doing a conversion. D'Arcy Echols does replace the boxes on his Legends with a new made (I think from Stainless) box.

*From what I have heard from very good gunsmiths you can't (or can't make it work well) chamber a Mod. 70 in 416 Rigby.

Red

Dago Red,

Thanks for the forumla. I appreciate it.

When I get some time it will be interesting to compare the box specs to the results of the formula run on actual rounds.

Your point is well taken....I am not planning on trying to get the fat old Rigby inside a M70. I know some do it and swear it is fine but, it is not something I am interested in trying. I have heard the same reports as you and very likely from the same smiths you are referring to.

My 'plan'.....such as it is, is to use the cz550 for the .375 H&H, & .416 Rigby and the M70 for the .300 mag, .338 win mag etc.

I want to replace the boxes for a couple reasons. The 'range' of cartridges that are fit into a single box makes me uncomfortable to say the least. I also really dislike the quality of metal that they are made out of. Just a personal opinion and I can see how others might disagree but, I want quality material used for the mag boxes and made correctly for the rounds in question. I would also like to specify the number of rounds per rifle....within reason. I agree it will be an extra expense but, I don't think it will be to bad. I am just looking for solid, reliable working rifles nothing fancy.

I am hoping someone has been down this road before and can chime in with some recommendations......

Regards,
Dave

Dago Red,

add my thanks to the list. I will be building a box for my 550 Gibbs on a Remington Model 30 and this formual will save me 3-4, maybe more hours of cut and bend and fit and cuss and cut some more and ...all that jazz!!

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
For the cartridges you mentioned in the actions you mentioned I don't think there is a need for a costly custom box, since those rifles are chambered in those cartridges* already you should be able to just get a different mag box if you are doing a conversion. D'Arcy Echols does replace the boxes on his Legends with a new made (I think from Stainless) box.

Post 64 Winchesters used the same box for standard cartridges and the short H&H based magnums. And a different box for the long H&H magnums that is designed around the .375. I have a couple of M70 classics in both standard and short belted mags. The standard cartridges feed well to very well. I would rate the belted mags as adequate but not optimum and definitely not smooth feeding.

For the belted magnums there really needs to be at least three unique boxes. One for the Short mags, one for the .300 & .375 H&H and one for the long, fat shouldered cartridges (.300 wby, .416 rem..)

From time to time a H&H box from a pre-64 will show up on ebay. These are properly dimensioned and hold four down in .300 or .375 H&H. I'm not sure how well these boxes would work on a new M70 classic though.

The only source I know of for boxes is Blackburn, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't sell only the box. And as stated above Echols makes his own but these only come on his rifles.

Once you figure out your dimensions it would be pretty simple for a tool and die shop to make a forming die and make boxes to your specs. But those boxes would probably relatively expensive at low volume. Too bad a manufacture like Williams doesn't make and sell boxes... Wishful thinking on my part. Are you listening Matt

No one else has any options for me?

Obviously no one currently sells them but, someone must have had a mag box or two made for them....? Anyone?

I would rather not take it upon myself to contact a machine shop and try to have them made. I don't at all feel comfortable with that option. I don't know enough about the whole process to believe it would be anything other than an expensive learning experience! Perhaps I might work with a smith who could get the dimension/specs of what I need down properly and then send the job out to have it done (if he was unwilling to do it himself.)

Those who work on the Tool & Die trade...what would you think a little project like this would cost me say for 4 or 5 rifles?

Perhaps, this is a bit of a business opportunity for your guys in the industry? I bet there is some need for this sort of thing and no one appears to be doing it? Can you fit a few smaller projects into your weekly machine cycles?

Regards,
Dave

Contact D'arcy.....he will most likely let you know the shop that's making his. I've spoke to him on the subject myself, but lost the info on the folks getting them made for him.

When you find out again.....shoot a mail over to me...appreciated.

The current Mdl. 70 in 375H&H (or should I say latest or last?) will hold 4 down with a spring change out. I think you will find that even if you had D'Arcy's in hand that the bottom of the action would require milling so that is not a drop in affair. 4 down is not simple in 300 Win. 338 Win. and such, I wish it was as I would like that aswell.

HBH

quote:

Originally posted by HBH:
The current Mdl. 70 in 375H&H (or should I say latest or last?) will hold 4 down with a spring change out. I think you will find that even if you had D'Arcy's in hand that the bottom of the action would require milling so that is not a drop in affair. 4 down is not simple in 300 Win. 338 Win. and such, I wish it was as I would like that aswell.

HBH

Actually, it is the same... swap the spring, as the last (heck, it COULD have been the last one made) 7remmag m70 (a lefty) had teh "whoop" in the spring, that allows a 4th round down.

jeffe

Jeffeosso,

I have tryed all Winchesters, Mausers, Wisners evertything but a Mountain spring in Winchesters box also the (long E box and the Ultra) and not got 4 down correctly in the 300 Win . and 338 Win. The one with the "whoop" didn't work in the 375 it required the flat bottom spring. What box was in that 7mm?

HBH

You can get a flat spring from Wisners.

With regard to the above formula; you might want to add a touch, just because(i.e. shit stuff slides around some). Anyway, that's what my grandma used to say, God rest her soul.

LD

I love math, and the formula is not that difficult if you know trig, but a much simpler way is to rubber band three of your cartridges together and measure across them with calipers at the base and shoulder and add a little clearance, (something like .020" for example).

Shane Thompson

lawndart & Shane,

Exactly(!), but I am in no position to know how much 'play' things really need to operate correctly w/o screwing up the whole....load, feed, fire, extract, eject...repeat process and this could very well defeat the purpose of a new magazine. Not to mention how the box might need to be finished to mate properly w/ the actions as well as the bottom metal & floor plate assembly. I can easily forsee being asked these sort of questions by a Tool & Die maker and not being able to effectively answer....

Grandma was right!

Regards,
Dave