Received a call from Beretta customer support, telling my rifle was not affected by the recall. I was in a meeting at the time so I could not question any more than that, and that is all the information I was given. So I sent this letter to Beretta customer support and here is a copy. This is the third letter I have sent, and was a response to one by Beretta asking me for my serial number which I already provided over their "recall line"

"I have been contacted by your customer service department by phone and told
my rifle was not affected by the recall. I was in a
meeting at the time of the call(figures) and no other explination was given
to me. I do know the nature of the recall and have seen pictures of the
rifle failures. I would really like a little personal assurance that I can
continue to use my rifle safely, because as of now I do not feel that way
and "yours is not affected" doesn't do much to help.. Can you please
explain to me exactly what caused these failures, and why I can be assured
that I will not have these problems in the future, or give me the contact
name and number of someone who can help me. Thank you."

I also enclosed my serial number and contact information. I must confess that this is the second draft of the letter I originally intended to send them which was very harsh. I guess I have learned that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Let's see what happens. Feel free to give me suggestions as to how you think would be a better way for me to procede.

Seems like a nice well written letter with reasonable questions. I hope you get a response that makes everyone feel better about the way they are handling things.

I have a stainless barrel that has been banned on all
NRA of Australia ranges, to protect the innocents so to
speak. This was due to a tardy response from the maker
after a blowup.
I can immagin a company's response when first report of
a blowup comes in. "What did the shooter do to my barrel"?
Then trying to sort out what/why/how/steel batches/methods
of rifleing etc. with all hell breaking loose.
Apparently the manufacture of my barrel had written quality
statements/tests of the steel that just wern't correct.
In other words it takes time to sort out that which was
totally unexpected.
Haven't we all got other rifles to use in the mean time.
John L.

ANY letter, good or bad, should go to the Prez of the outfit. He will never see it but he will be made aware of the "goods" versus the "bads" and you'll get past some QA type that wants NO INFO flowing upwards.

Mike,
I'll post some pictures of the primer & case for you tomorrow. And no it diddent have bullseye in it, it had 4831.
Mark

Well it's been a couple of days since I sent my letter to Beretta and no response. What a big suprise. I guess us "customers" aren't important enough to be told such information. Did I say customer?? I mean ex-customer. I am probably going to write a similar letter and address it to the president, probably with the same response, none. Craigster, are you sure that address is current? Thanks.

The address is from Berreta's website, so it should be. Double check in case of a possible typo on my part. Send it some form of registered or certified with a return receipt requested. That way only the addressee or his authorized agent/agents can receive it. So it will or will not be accepted, that'll tell ya something right there.

"apparently checked" is a question.I have no idea exactly what checks and how many are made .You could , I suppose check the scrap piece cut off the end of each barrel, but that's expensive unless you had a nondestructive automated system test that would check each barrel.....Assuming that the problem is the delta ferrite ,this does not occur in Cr-Mo barrels....Each batch or "heat" of steel is has a unique chemistry ,though falling within the normal range for that alloy.This is checked.The processing ,hot rolling etc,add another variable and this is where delta ferrite occurs....The barrels from this batch have to be identified and recalled. Stainless steel barrels have been used for many years so it's not a problem of stainless but one of QC...BTW can anyone tell me if the receiver of the Sako is cast or wrought material ? I also don't know if the bolts are made from the same alloy. In some firearms different stainless alloys are used to minimize galling. Assuming that they are made properly stainless steel and Cr-Mo barrels work fine.

Just wondering if anyone is aware of similar blowups occurring with the Tikka T3s with blued barrels?

The receivers are now investment cast. They still make their bolts the old fashioned way. I don't know what alloy the bolts are.
JCN

Hey Guys (and Gals),

Berretta is going to continue to play "Secret Squirrel" over this whole blow-up issue.

I am starting a registry of these events. We know the serial number range of the bad Tikkas. We need the serial number range of the bad Finn Lites. If anyone can get that to me I will make sure the word gets out.

We know for sure about blow-ups in Australia, Sweden and Washington State, USA. If anybody knows about anyone else that has had this happen, please ask them to contact me. I will get them in contact with the other people. By sharing photos, metallurgical reports and narratives it will be easier for the affected shooters to make Berretta do the right thing (e.g. pay for surgeries and rehab, replace rifles with ones that won't blow apart and pay for lost work).

Nothing like pooling resources to get the job done.

JCN

noak@direcway.com

Lawndart, I'll work a couple angles on that on monday. I bought several of my SAKO 75's from Accuflite and I know JB called the rep from SAKO/Beretta after I called JB. He said that they had called him some months earlier without telling him anything and inquired about the serial number ranges he had in his shop. I'll call JB and see if he has the serial number ranges. I have called the recall line number myself after having been told verbally that my guns were OK and not on the list, but can't get them to respond in writing. I am thinking about having my attorney send them a letter, but at any rate I will have one of my friends who is a local dealer call the line again on monday and see if they will give him a range of serial numbers. He stocks Tikka's as well as SAKO's so maybe we can get somewhere from that angle.
Happy Thanksgiving--Don.

I know the guy who sold the Tikka T3 SS to the father of the 15 year old here in Sweden. This gun blew after just a couple of rounds of factory ammo. And, brace yourselves, this gun was delivered to the dealer as a replacement for guns already recalled!!! Apparently, someone goofed at the factory and sent out a couple of guns that were supposed to have been withheld, in line with the recall. Whether these guns were within the "recall ranges" I don't know. I don't think the dealers have been told what numbers to look for here either, but simply were sent replacement guns from Beretta/Tikka/Sako.

The 15 year old has been/will be compensated for his injuries and have been given a new gun etc, according to the papers here in Sweden. Can't beleive that Sako still hasn't put a notice on their home page though; talk about destroying confidence in a brand name. Two actually, as both Sakos and Tikkas are affected.

Thanks so much guys. If the boy from Sweden wishes, he is welcome to send an e-mail to me, and I'll hook him up with one of the US people who was injured also.

Once we get some more data I will scan and post a flyer with all the pertinent information so people can down load it, print it out and then post it at their ranges and gun stores.

JCN

Lawndart, what you said!
I haven't had any luck getting the serial number ranges yet, but I haven't heard back from JB at Accuflite, hopefully he can help us get the ranges. My friend who works at a shop here in Georgia can't get the rep to give him the ranges yet, he said he'd keep trying, but their shop actually burnt to the ground last year and they had'nt sold a gun until about October of this year so..... I am really pissed that the recall line folks won't send me something in writing confirming their verbal blessing of the guns I have. I am getting several of them rebarrelled over the winter, some wise sage gave me the idea of doing that over the winter--Krieger barrels methinks......At any rate I may have some barrels from those that aren't in the recall if we need them for something.
Good Luck to all--D.

Hi Hall
I read an article from hart i recall talking about barrel the heart of rifle and was mentioned about a17-4 pch steel called 700 ss which was made by crucible intended for barrel making, but i can't find data about this steel at crucible's site, even a simple 410 or 420 stainless containing at least 0.5%mo too for the cold resistance and with low soulfur around 0'03%s would make a nice barrel steel instead of this resulfurized 416R crap'
regards
danny

Hey Marc,
There is a little blurb on their sweb site now. They don't use 416 in the thinner contours due to its brittleness in colder conditions.
JCN

Crucible makes 174SXR which is a variation of 17-4 and is a martensitic precipitation hardening steel.

Brass case looks like a reloaded case to me...

I was able to find another dealer to take my daughters Tikka T3 stainless in on a trade for a Tikka 695 BLUED STEEL rifle.
It was a pretty much straight across swap, and even though I am losing a little on the gun value, I don't have to worry about it letting go.
By the way, so far no response from Beretta's recall line. (it's only been 3 weeks, I guess I just expected better from these folks)

Danny!

The term SS 700(LW 50) was used on the Accumax II barrels by Blackstar when it was being run by Mark Stouse. That was several years ago. It was a marketing term only!!!

We maybe should start a new thread about this subject!!!

Regards
Hall

A friend of mine just had his Sako 300 blow up. This happened in BC. I have not personally talked to him, but what I here is that the gun looks just like the posted pictures. I will lead him to this site.

Alex

HI Alex
wellcom on board. There plenty of article about the Titanic and the steel used in it's hull on internet sako was one of finest gun makers and it happened to them . it is only the top of iceberg. I am sure we are going to see and hear more even from other known gun makers. as far as the only goal for gun makers is making easy money not a good and reaiable gun.
regards
danny

The Titanic was made of poor steel. High amounts of nonmetallic inclusions ,large grain size, and high brittle transition temperature all made the steel brittle.It probably would have survied with better steel......The specs for 416 include -sulphur ,.150% minimum. Crucibles 416R has a sulphur content of .130 %, a bit harder to machine but safer also !

Very good photos for the web. Do you think you could get better close-ups in the chamber areas, especially of the neck and start of the rifling (throat). It appears that both of the failures may have started in that area. All the 3 pairs of fracture surfaces in the older failure seem to indicate that is where the fracture originated. One of the fracture surfaces of the newest failure looks like it started in the same place but some of the others not, the photos are not as clear. Each of these has 3 fractures. I assume the throat will have the highest stress during normal firing? (I don't know that for sure). Lighting from the sides and not the top will usually help show the river marks on the fracture surfaces. They lead back to the origin.

The barrels are not macro brittle, the pieces have obviously yielded with considerable deformation. SEM images would help to determine if they are micro brittle, I would assume they are not from the very rough appearance but it could be brittle at the origin, I'm not going to assume on this one. Has anyone checked the hardness as compared to a good barrel? Maybe they just heat treated them too soft/weak?

I don�t know what these barrels were made out of, but a resulfurized grade seems like a bad choice. The sulfur inclusions are added to aid machining but will act as stress concentrators in the microstructure.

METE- What is delta ferrite? Is it the same as retained austenite? Sorry, don�t have my books handy.

�Ferrite inclusions� also bewilders me.

When you look for a failure analyist try to find one with some experiance in barrel steel. There is a lot of generalists out there. I assume Sako's staff metallurgist will look pretty good on the stand. The science is too much for juries and they tend to look at resumes when determining who is right.

I hope everyone heals up well.

and people knock savage!

416 is a high sulphur martensitic stainless steel.These barrels have to be checked for composition, amount ,size and distribution of sulphide inclusions, hardness, amount size and distibution of delta ferrite areas.[ferrite "inclusions" is incorrect term].The basic crystal structures in steel are austenite,martensite and ferrite [both alpha and delta]As this is a martensitic stainless we should have primarily martensite .We also may find delta ferrite.Delta ferrite forms at high temperature and is primarily iron and is weaker than martensite.I'd work all this out but retired and no lab in my house!.....I hope those that send back blown up guns only send 1 piece of the barrel to SAKO, send one to a very reliable independant lab [maybe a university], and keep the other !If you want to see a completely blank look on peoples faces - watch the faces of the jurors when they hear a perfectly presented scientific explaination !!

Thank you very much Fish 30114!

Some slices through the chamber area to compare with the affected barrels would be "velly intelesting" as Charlie Chan used to say.

Well, we're up to five described blow ups now. Fortunately the most recent one I've learned of did not result in injury. Evidently the gun was significantly more destroyed than the pictures already posted. That must have been very impressive to watch or experience. This also occured north of the border. Canada leads the way!

More news tomorrow.

JCN

Beltloop,
It was a reload. Norna brass loaded with 65.5 gr of IMR 4831 with fed 215 and a nolser 180gr Balistic tip.
Mark

This one is a factory load.

JCN

Email reply I got from stoeger(sakos distributor)
The lowest serial number affected by the recall is 419140 and the highest serial number affected is 461951,

Believe or not..I was waiting for this..Im not a metallurgist..I am good welder..now something but I have been allways wery suspicious to theese "stainless" barrels..
My opinion is that stainless steel is NOT a gunsteel..Im sure many of y agree with me..
Gun steel is "black"..it must be wery tough,sticky,viscous metal(my english is poor)Y know what I mean.. .
Stainless is not that,ok I dont know the steel they use but Im really suspicious.
Then I newer use anything where is written "light" .If I find that word,I know its not for me,its for somebody else,not for me.
Im a heawy bastard,not fat but big,strong built.
I am able to carry any huntingrifle the whole day long,what ewer it weights,I tested that in the army,carried one Maxim machinegun + the base two days.ok..forget about that
Anyway..I will newer buy one stainless gun for myself..I dont ewen understand why those are made..one dont need to clean..weatherproof and so on...bullshit
I have few rifs...mainly use 3006 4570 and 375H&H

I feel wery sorry for those who have suffered of theese blewups and hope they recover soonest...

Im a Finn (Finland) because of Sako prising and policy in several matters I will newer anymore buy one Sako...
I made this decision some time ago...

Shooting and hunting is a great hobby...


Elias

Thanks mate. A lovely post. An enlightned viewpoint.
I agree with you totally, except of course the chome steel
is a bit like stainless to look at until it is blued.
But you get these people getting cameo this and that, matt
scopes etc. and then think nothing of wandering around with
a gastly silver barrel, or should that be a silver barrel
with gastly flutes. Yuck. Anyway I think you're a fine Fin.
John L.

Thanks JAL

Elias

The first one that you see in this post is mine and its a
300 WSM. it was posted for me by J.C.N.(lawndart) There is a post further up that shows my ser.# compare it to yours for your own peace of mind. I have bin around wepons all my life and have bin reloading for 20 plus years. Yes I understand shit happens and people make mistakes, BUT trust me I was in the clear 100% in this case.
I have run that day over and over in my mind since the
13 Oct. the day it happened and I still do, and probley will the rest of my life, and yes I loose sleep over it too. All I can say is if you feel comfortible with it and turst it then shoot it. Also bare in mind that mine is not the only one to ganade and it seems that all the one's that have let loose have done so under 25 rounds weather factory or reloads. If you have shot yours more than that already well that might just give you some peace of mind already.
It will be tough for me to get back in the saddle again with any wepon.
Best of Luck with you delema,
Mark

As marknlinda mentioned, all the destroyed rifles let loose very early. Every shooter was using factory loads or hand loads that were in the middle of the pressure envelope.
JCN

 

The jig is up…

Finnish gun manufacturer recalls faulty hunting weapons

…in Finland, at least.

 

I called Sako's recall line yesterday (1-800-503-8869) and they confirmed the span of numbers, as stated elsewhere here, are 419140 thru 461951. They (she) also stated that not all guns (Tikka or Sako) that are within that span of serial numbers are effected. I gave her one we had in the gun shop, a .300 Win Mag, with a serial number of 44xxxx and she confirmed it was OK. Better late than never on the recall; however, they have sure hurt their image with the shooting and buying public. I saw the recall number published in the North American hunting magazine, but was alerted to the problem on this forum. Thanks!

I received my monthly issue of North American Hunters Club e-letter and it has a LARGE article on the Sako recall. Hmmmm? Finally the sleeping giant wakes!

If this had been Ruger, there would have been something after the FIRST gun blew up.

Here is the info from NAHA:


Sako Rifle Recall


FINLAND—Finnish hunting rifle manufacturer Sako is recalling approximately 3,000 rifles because of a potential defect that could cause them to break apart when fired.

Sako instituted the recall after a Washington state man suffered injuries to his hand when his Sako .300 Win. Short Mag. Finnlight rifle exploded while he was shooting at a firing range. The man was rushed to a hospital with four broken bones in his hand. After the incident, Sako ordered the recall.

Rifle owners should contact Sako's Recall Center at (800) 503-8869 with their rifle's serial number to find out if their firearm is affected by this recall.