I will be getting my hands on a Siamese Mauser and don't really know just exactly what they are. I need help! What do you build on them? How are they different than a 98?
Butch

A 98 style action that has a slanted magazine that works well with rimmed cases.

It is a 98 type Mauser designed for rimmed cartridges. The magazine is about 3 in long inside and is slanted backward to insure the rims don't hang up. There are picture of one in DeHaas's book "Bolt Action Rifles".

The front ring about the diameter of a large ring but does not have the step on the sides similar to a small ring. The threads are an odd ball form at 14 TPI.
Those I have messed with have more clearance around the bolt body to it is a little loose in the receiver. The firing pin is also looser in the cocking piece.

Here is what can be made of one. It's 30/40 Krag and shoots nicely. Was made up of leftovers. Barrel was a Douglas premium that was mis-installed on an M14. Irons were Remington takoffs. Stock is a VERY plain piece of English. Silk purse so to speak.

The Siamese mauser is a very interesting mauser varient. It can be reworked in a very nice rifle for rimmed cases such as the 30-40 krag or better yet the .405 winchester. Many people including myself have tried to convert them to .45-70 and run 50Kpsi loads. Dont do it. The mag box wont work properly and none of the guns I've examined feed correctly or reliably. -Rob

Robgunbuilder,

I have a couple of Siamese Mausers in excellent shape, no rust etc. A couple of years ago I was thinking that I could re-work one into a 405 Win. I posed the question here on this forum and the consensus was that it could not be done and most recommended that I go with a 45-70.

A while later, I was at a gun show in Ruidoso, New Mexico and I talked with Ken Waters. I asked him the same question and he replied to me that if it was him doing it, he would go with a 444 Marlin.

I am still interested in the 405 Win. What all is involved with this conversion? Will it feed reliably when done?

Muchas gracias,
Hoot

Back in the '70s when I was in gunsmithing school there were a good number of them on the market. Some of the students got these but I don't know the details .I don't remember any other cartridge conversion except the 45-70.It was strong enough to handle some serious 45-70 loads.

I built 2 back in the late '80's. My personal rifle is in 45-70 and I have never had any problems with feeding or ejecting. When I first built the rifle I had a blast pushing 300 gr; Sierra HP bullets to 2400 fps. After getting that nonsense out of my system I decided to go the cast bullet route. This rifle shoots cast bullets very well. I love to hunt deer with this rifle. I have a Leupold 1.5x5 scope on it and can usually see the deer fall through the scope.

Just the info that I wanted. Zim, that is a nice rifle. I need to put it in the queue.
Butch

We did a feeding job on one in 45/70 a few months ago and had it working great. I'd like to build one in 50 Alaskan.

And if all of this is not enough for you, I saw a beautifully done one in .45-70 that looked like a classic English bolt action express rifle. It was for sale in teh Westley Richards store in Bozeman, MT. As I recall, the price was around $1800 and the work appeared to be impecable. If you are interested, here is a link to it.

Dave

My Siamese was rebarreled to 45-70. The magazine well opening at the front was smaller than a 45-70 rim. I had to remove about .010 of each rail for the first half inch from the front. It would not raise the front of the 45-70 round high enough to feed well with the original follower spring. I replaced it with a 1903A3 follower spring and it worked fine.
That was 1972.

Butch
Those rifles are really dangerous it would be best if you sent it to me so I can secure it and keep it from doing harm to some living being.

Butch,

I have a pair that are slated for a matched set in .25 Ackley Krag and 405 Win. If the 405 is too long, there is a possibility that one of the 375/400 BPEs might fit. If they are a no go, there is a wildcat I saw listed in one of the singleshot mags that is a shortened 405. It would definitely work.

Thaine

Siamese Mausers... I don't think they like being called that. I believe the correct term is "conjoined".

Thaine If your 405 is too long you may want to consider a 375/348 ackley Imp. I built one last winter and it feeds just great. Comes pretty close to a 375 H&H ballistically. Now thats a thumper.

Oops, forgot the link!

http://www.westleyrichards.com/gun/used_guns_2_product.php?id=26039

Loud-n-boomer,
No way I could build that nice of a rifle even doing it myself. Not for that price!
Butch

This.

Looking at that rifle at Westley Richards I sure don't think I could have it copied/made for $1,800. It's a nice piece.

I just don't think I need a $1.8K 45-70 currently.

Maybe if it was a 45-90 or 45-110....

Garrett

For a little background on these actions, they were made by the Japanese for the Siamese (Thai's) from a lot better steel than the Mauser 98's were and had a far better heat treatment. They are a fine action (as you can see from the W-R site and the action pictured) and well worth making a custom (rimmed cartridge) rifle from. The best thing to make them look their best is to TIG the dustcover detents and do a good polish job on them.

Very nice photos Doug. It should be here today or tomorrow.
Butch

I need to add a PS here: That trigger guard is a lot of fun to inlet! Just be patient & take your time.

Navy Arms reworked a bunch of these in the early 1980s to .45-70. They were done correctly and every one I have seen feeds very well. These make one of the strongest .45-70s one can have.

quote:

Originally posted by Masterifleman:
For a little background on these actions, they were made by the Japanese for the Siamese (Thai's) from a lot better steel than the Mauser 98's were and had a far better heat treatment. They are a fine action (as you can see from the W-R site and the action pictured) and well worth making a custom (rimmed cartridge) rifle from. The best thing to make them look their best is to TIG the dustcover detents and do a good polish job on them.

Hello all. This is my first post on this board. I have a Siamese that I am thinking of building into a 45/70 express type rifle, and am getting ready to send it to the weld shop to have the detent holes plugged. Can anyone give information as to the type of steel, or more specifically, the carbon content? What else is needed for a proper weld? Will it require pre/post heating, type of filler rod, etc.
Thanks, Ken

Received it today. Looks clean. I need the band to hold the extractor and the receiver screws.
Butch

You might find this example of what can be done an inspiration.

http://www.westleyrichards.com/gun/used_guns_2_product.php?id=26039

Roger

Anyone have any loose parts for these? I've got one mostly complete, but needing a bolt body, extractor, floorplate, spring, follower and mag screws. Some of those parts I'll see about making once I get my mill up and running... but then there's that thing called a learning curve

I sold my last complete action to a friend who's building it now as a 45-90... going to be nice.
Regards,
Jeff P

Pfeifer,

PM sent.

When I start on it and it will be a little while, I think it needs to be an iron sighted 45-70. What taper barrel would you recommend?
Butch

You might think about, RCBS offerred "form dies" to make 8x50R and 8x52R Siamese brass from .45/70's way back when. (After I had mine converted to .45/70! Oh well.) luck. Yes, they also use the .348 WCF case well and that includes anything from the .30 Howell to the 450 or 475 or 500 Alaskan developed for thumping things with 71 Winchesters in the great northwest/Yukon.

Craigster,
PM returned.

I used to have 6 Siamese receivers and a rifle about 8 yrs ago... even had PME make up another run of special M70 3-pos safeties for the Siamese. I was thinking of building a pair of 450 and 50 Alaskans, still have those RCBS die sets if someone else wants to travel down that road.
Jeff P

Re: the 3 position safeties for the Siamese. Coud you provide more information? Who is PME?
Thanks
Ken

PME = Precise Metalsmithing Enterprises now closed, formerly owned and run by Jim Wisner. I believe Ed Lapour may now have the tooling for these??? Maybe Jim can comment.
The thread on the Siamese bolt shroud has a slightly different shaped thread and the Siamese firing pins have the locking end at a right angle to the standard M98 so the broach cut into the shroud has to be different. Does that description make sense? I had talked to Gentry about these but not sure if he ever made any.
Jeff P

Thanks, Jeff P.
I'm aware of the thread difference and the 90 degree firing pin cut difference to M98's. Is Jim Wisner related to Leroy Wisner of Wisners gun parts? I would like to track one of these down.
Ken

quote:

Originally posted by Pfeifer:
PME = Precise Metalsmithing Enterprises now closed, formerly owned and run by Jim Wisner. I believe Ed Lapour may now have the tooling for these??? Maybe Jim can comment.
The thread on the Siamese bolt shroud has a slightly different shaped thread and the Siamese firing pins have the locking end at a right angle to the standard M98 so the broach cut into the shroud has to be different. Does that description make sense? I had talked to Gentry about these but not sure if he ever made any.
Jeff P

The Siamese firing pins are also a sloppier fit in the cocking piece. This results in the cocking piece tilting upward noticeably when the rifle is cocked. My firing pin eventually broke through the most inboard groove. I bought another but it would have been better to make a new one out of tool steel or titanium. A new firing pin could be made to fit better and eliminate the tilted up cocking piece which is unsightly.

Here are some pictures of my Siamese , a few things still left to do...

Looks good Craigster.
Butch

What caliber is yours Craigster?

My friend took some pictures of his .45-90 Siamese project which I posted to my webshots "Siamese" album.
45-90
Also here is a picture I found of one of the PME A-301 Siamese safeties next to the original shroud with the vertical broach.
Jeff P