and so it begins.. and it's going back to brownells tomorrow...

let's start with i've only installed about 15 of 3 pos safeties before.. even the weird one for an enfield

gentry safety, mauser 98.. 3 position

gun in question.. brazilian 98..

okay, 1.5 hours of lapping the safety into the bolt really seems excesive.. the threads on the gentry look like a greenhorn using a rigid pipethreader..

i can live with this..

the inner ring of the safety doesn't come CLOSE to fitting into the rear of half a dozen mausers I have around the house... about .05 too big..

okay, i have sandpaper....

the shroud retaining pin... hmm, if you have it in the safety shroud you can NOT close the bolt... this is odd...

take the pin and string out... closes fine... weird...

shorten the spring.. same story..

okay.. getting a little annoyed...

counter sink the bolt perfectly to directions... polish and dykum the bolt

run the safety all the way on...

work the lever back to mark the bolt...

WHAT.. the safety throws ALL the way back... (no, i hadn't ground ANYTHING yet.. mil sear)

scratch my head.. try 3 different firing pins (just because)... NEVER does the safety hit the sear.. try a couple sears.. nope, nada..

btw, safety back (not disengaging) <thunk>.. safety to fire, firing pin drops...

By now I think *I* am an idiot..

turn thr shroud a full turn back.. (it's not over lapped, as it has an intregal stop).. now hits the sear.. but that's about .125 back.. so firing pin protrustion...


take the whole thing apart, put it on a rifle WITH THE SAME SAFETY from ~4 years ago... same results.. can't close bolt with shroud retaining pin in, don't have firing pin with it 1/2 a turn off, firing pin falls when safety is disengaged.


in short, the critical dimensions are off about 1/2 a turn (that would be shroud upside down and unlocked)

it'll go back for a dakota tomorrow.


jeffe

I have only done four of them, but I have never had a problem with the Dakota, FWIW.

Jeffe:

In a word, yes. I fitted one to a Model 700. The "timing" was off between the open and closed position so the ball/plunger relationship was off. With the bolt closed, the lever would work and lock the bolt. But, if you unscrewed the affair and then put it back, the ball retainer was off and the bolt wouldn't close. The cocking piece was binding on the action.

Dakota 3 postiion safies rule.

update.. brownels is out of stock on dakotas..

they suggest another gentry, but tested by their techs...

fine..

shesh

I thought I was going very stupid when I couldn't get the thing to fit!!

jeffe

I can't remember if it was a Dakota or Gentry, but I had one, that I couldnt get to fit. I sent it to Dennis Olson, he sent me a note back that said it was a bear to fit.

Gentry offers fitting along with the safety if you buy from them. I would think that would be one way to go?

What are the benefits of the three position unit over the two position as seen by users here?

jim

There are two schools of thought.

One you make a part that will fit correctly and then everyone who thinks they are a gunsmith will mess up the cocking piece installing the safety. But the REAL gunsmiths thank you for the fine work. And a good machinest will try to figure out how in the @^$%#* you made that sleeve on a manual mill.

Two. you make a part that will not work but since the customer had to alter it to make it work then you can not sue the maker. Or maybe the maker simply can not get the correct dims to start with.

When I was making these safties, I figure I made about 4000 Mauser 98 three position M70 safties over 19 years. During a 15 year period, I used the same 1909 Arg action to check the thread timing and diameter on every one of the safties I made. The FN commercial actions from the mid 50's, (JC HIggins etc) those threads would run about .008" - .012" larger than the 1909 bolt I used to check the threads. I could hold the firing pin protrustion to within about +/-.002" per batch , (100 to 200 pieces), by using the one action and bolt to justify the threads over the 15 year period I used this one action.
I also aquired an copy of a 1938 Obendorf blue print of the sleeve with the threads, the threads are not what you thing they are. They are 2 MMPT x 60 degree buttress with a flat crest and a flat bottom. Most people never know about these flats unless you look at a pre WW2 sleeve.

FWI, Ed LaPour bought the tooling from me this year and will be making some Mauser 98 three position safties next year.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith
(Former M70 Safety King)

Gentry makes a 3-P safety for left hand Mausers. Are there any other options for replacing the safety on a left hand Chas Daly?

Are the Gentry 3 position safeties for Remington 700s worth anything? Does anyone else make a 3 position safety for a Remington 700?

Oh no! Not a Dakota...

I know they cost more, but does anyone have experience with the Recknagel three position safety that NECG imports?

lawndart

Yes, very well made but don't screw up like I did and buy the one with the tiny locking lever on the main lever (it was on sale; I should have known why). Total PIA to remember each time "damnit Harry, push DOWN before you push forward". Get the normal one with no interlock.

I really think mine could get one killed quick in Africa.

got the replacement gentry.. total SHITE


threads are 1/2 turn 180degrees out on this run

same exact story... then stuck *MY* dakota from my 376 on it, works PDG

amazing

jeffe

quote:

I really think mine could get one killed quick in Africa.

Thanks for the heads up Harry.

It looks like Dakota, Recknagel/NECG and soon Ed LaPour will be the approved solutions. That or have Jim Kobe modify your existing shroud.

lawndart

I've become a fan of the Wisner two position for normal hunting after getting 3 from Jim Kobe. Simple and well executed.

Prewar70-

Ed LaPour makes a three position Model 70 type safety for Remington 700's. He makes a really good product and I believe or think a lot of his designs originated from Jim Wisner.

I bought a Gentry 3 pos safety and after my gunsmith finally working, he said NEVER AGAIN!!! He told me that if I bought a Gentry again, I was on my own. In contrast, he said it's pretty easy to install the Dakota safety. The ERA/Recknagel safety is also good quality.

Hey jeffe.........make me a deal on the 3 pos safety you can't get to work..........lol

sure billy.. trade me a dry oil well!!

seriously guys.. this lot is 180deg out!!

I'll need a dakota replacement.. but that wont be here before the hunt.. guess my light gun will have to be my 416 rigby and Mike can use his own gun

jeffe

tech support confirms.. 180deg out.
"found" a dakota to send me..

thanks
and thanks jim
jeffe

Is the three position saftey by Recknagel listed on NECG sight worth $250 as opposed to $145 on Brownells for a Dakota?

Brownells only lists the Recknagel with the lever on the wing.

Who makes the best three position safety for a mauser?

Allen

You can get the Recknagel with out the locking lever on the wing directly from NECG. I like the way they look, and will get one for a project next year. I don't know anyone who has worked with both the Dakotas and the Recknagels. Feedback has been excellent on both makes.

lawmdart

I prefer the Recknagel...................but the Dakotas would be better for engraving ppurposes as they have bigger flats.

The Recknagel to my eye looks more mauserish.

Boy am I glad all my mausers have 3 position
safeties by Jim Wisner!

Unless I'm mistaken, Ed LaPour is now making a
very similar safety.

Give Ed a call at (360)479-4966

Sam problem here with a Gentry on a 700. Has LaPour got a web-site?

Aloha, Mark

I installed a Dakota 3-position to a VZ-24. It took some doing but in the end it worked spectacularly.

So I bought another one from Brownells to install on a Argie.....I never got it to fit. I sent it to Brownell's and they agreed there was something wrong with the safety from Dakota. Next batch was the same way....and the next batch ditto again.

I finally gave up. It looks like the Gentry ain't much better.

Will the Dakota work to convert my 96 Swede? I'd rather have the 3 position, but I suppose I could live with the Wisner conversion to 2 position as available from Brownells.

I just spoke to Ed Lapour.

He is going to have M 98 saftes ready around Feb. His web sight is almost finnished http://www.edlapourgunsmithing.com Phone 360-479-4966

He has Brno and ZKK safties ready now.

I think I'll wait for one of Ed's. Heard he does a real nice job.

Allen

I have a Wisner two position on a springfield and a Burgess two position on a mauser. I like them, they are well made, and personally don't have any need for the 3rd position.

Red

I've still got some left; anyone? Two position ones?

Jim,
i was about 5 mins from calling you, till brownells jumped up and fizz'ed it.

jeffe

Ed LaPour is a heck of a gunsmith and any product he puts out will be first rate. He started with the Wisner tooling and designs and made subtle improvments along the way. I'm looking forward to getting one of his safeties.

quote:

Originally posted by BigEd:
Ed LaPour is a heck of a gunsmith and any product he puts out will be first rate. He started with the Wisner tooling and designs and made subtle improvments along the way. I'm looking forward to getting one of his safeties.

And what might those subtle improvements be?

Ed LaPour changed some of the shapes of the sleeves.
Like on the M70, M54 and 1903 Springfield, he added a small gas flange on the LH side.

Also I had several new designs for some of the parts that I have given him to improve the mechanics on various safeties.
New sleeve lock plunger system for the Brno.
A divet hole on the safety lever that when the safety is in the fire position you can see the dab of red paint in the back of the safety lever.
Small things that I was starting to introduce in the safeties when he bought the tooling from me.

Plus Ed is a heck of a machinest, he has come up with some really neat changes on his own.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith