Looking for suggestions
I have a 91 Argentine action that had a burned out barrel on it. I'm in the process of rebuilding it but now comes the time to buy a barrel and so I'm looking for ideas on caliber. What would you do?
I already have a nice 7X57 and don't care for another. So I'm thinking 257 Roberts or something. I'd like something that is fairly common as I plan on giving the rifle to a good friend of mine and he's not into reloading so a caliber he could pick up at a gun shop would be nice.
Just looking for ideas as I need to select a barrel and order one here soon.

look at the 6.5 X 55

Any caliber based on a x57 case should work just fine. Other than the chamberings you have mentioned, you might consider the 6.5X55. The original 7.65 was not a high pressure round and the 91 Argentine has it's limits.

The 1891 Argentine has a shorter magazine that might give problems with long loads in the 6.5x55 or 7x57. About 3" OAL or a little longer is the limit. A 257 Roberts would be perfect as would a 25-06 or 6mm Rem or 243 Win; you might also consider a 308, 260 Rem or 7-08 or even a 220 Swift.

The 7.65 Argentine is not a particularly low-pressure round like the US loads for the 7x57 and 257 Roberts, it's about the same pressure as the factory 30-06. I have rebarreled 1891s to several of the cartridges mentioned above as well as others including the 222-223 family, and have found that they do a good job within their (ugliness) limitations.

It's easy to convert to 1895 striker components; this conversion then permits the use of available 1895 safeties and upcock kits to modernize the action. I have bushed the bolt face and lengthened the extractor to adapt to the 222-223 family with great success, AAMOF a shortened-by-1" 1891 converted to 17-222 was one of my gunsmithing school projects back in the '60s.

My current light varminter is an 1891 converted to 223 and also converted to a hinged 1909-style floorplate with hidden 223 magazine. It has the 1895 striker assembly with upcock, also converted to use an 1898 safety and lightened striker assembly for a more petite appearance and faster lock time. From the appearance you'd never guess it was an 1891, not in a thousand years!

If you're concerned about the strength of the action, please don't be. Yes, the receiver rings are more easily crushed by the wrench of a careless smith than some 1898s, but the action itself is quite strong & well-made and has given me great service in several calibers for more than 40 years now. No, not quite as strong as a good 1898, but IMO plenty strong enough for any normal factory load in a non-belted case.

I'll try to post pictures later.
Regards, Joe

Pictures of the outside of the 223 Mauser 1891, my 'Mother-In-Law' rifle. An indication of her essential nature can be found in the grip cap representation.






The metalwork needs bluing but the rifle shoots and feeds quite well. This action is also fine for conversion to the 7.62x39 Combloc round or the 35 Remington, and it makes a splendid 358 Win. The only drawback IMO is the lack of a good aftermarket trigger.
Regards, Joe

any back story on the trigger?

interesting project.

The triggers are a product of Wisner's Precise Metalsmithing Enterprises and are the finest 2-lever DSTs I've ever used or seen. I'm somewhat of a set-trigger nut and have them on most of my rifles, these are the best I've seen in 40 years. The Anschutz triggers that are sometimes available from Brownell's are almost as good, but most of the others I've seen are not something I'd choose to use. These PME triggers are perfectly safe @ a 2-oz letoff and, as you can see, are fairly compact & short-coupled. The original 1891 TG is fairly large inside and these triggers fit quite well with good finger clearance to guard against accidental release of the floorplate button.

This is just a quick-&-dirty rifle I put together on a whim, using parts I already had lying around the shop. I always liked the 1891 and have wanted a hinged floorplate for one, so decided to see what could be done with the original parts. It'll look a lot better when it's blued.
Regards, Joe

I put one together awhile back with a 300 savage barrel. It has become one of my favorite rifles.

I picked one up at a gun show that had a Timney trigger in it. That was the first one I had seen for a 91 action. I have since found another that was NOS and bought it. I think they are discontinued now, but they can be had. I also know of a fellow that modifies springfield aftermarket triggers for the 91's and they work quite well. I think they are a fine little gun.

I have blown 2 primers in a M91 Mauser due to ignition problems with less than maximum loads.
The old rifle held up just fine even though the pressure was so high it ironed the head stamp letters flat.

J.D. ,

That is one cool rifle!

J.D. Steele
I appreciate the info. I was a bit concerned about the strength of the action, It being a small ring. But couldn't figure out why the 7.65 was rated at 56 Kpsi but all the gun rags say keep any small ring under 40K.
Well I think .220 swift it is.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kcstott:
couldn't figure out why the 7.65 was rated at 56 Kpsi but all the gun rags say keep any small ring under 40K.QUOTE]

Because IMO most of the writers are lazy and ignorant if not worse. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to compare the design of the various actions and the pressures of their cartridges, and the comparer can then instantly see that many of the so-called 'weak' actions are readily handling high-pressure cartridges and have been doing it for over 100 years with perfect safety. The 1891 is a perfect example.

I have never seen or heard of a blown-up small-ring Mauser where an unaltered receiver had a catastrophic failure. Bolt setback yes, receiver cracking no. OTOH I've seen both high-no 1903 Springfields and pre-64 M70s that had actually broken apart under excessive pressure. There's a photo of pieces of an M70 receiver in one of Ackley's Handbooks, and in smithing school at Trinidad we were shown a 1903 bolt with both lugs cracked clean off. I've never even heard of either occurrence with any Mauser.

For a basic comparison of blowup tests with various military surplus actions, please see (again) Ackley's Handbook. The tests shown in his book are merely the first series, he did others later but I don't have details.

Craigster, thanks for the compliment!
Regards, Joe

JD
Can you give me a starting point for the bottom metal. I've always hated the magazine hanging from the bottom of the gun.
Was this just a later year mauser bottom metal moded to fit of what??

I completely agree on the laziness of writers. Like you said it doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out. I'd been contemplating going 308 but the small ring myth held me back.
Either way thanks

I used the original 1891 bottom metal, with the addition of a 1909 floorplate left over from a straddle replacement on another rifle. Your friendly local custom smith may have one in his goody box. I removed the forward stud that secures the original protruding magazine and used the hole as a basis for the new slot for the 1909 floorplate tongue. The tricky part was drilling the 1891 metal to match the existing 1909 hinge hole in the tongue, but it's doable by a careful workman. I then removed the 1891 magazine latch & spring and reshaped the TG bow to a more pleasing contour, in fact you can see it's still rough-shaped and not polished yet. I heated and bent the 1891 latch to match the new bow contour and then added the small teat on the inside; the job isn't perfect but I didn't want to make the teat as large as customary with other Mausers or Sakos. The 1909 floorplate is long enough to look fairly comfortable in its new home and it's easy to cut the rear to match the latch. I found that the floorplate didn't want to release cleanly since there was no follower pressure on it, so I added a small spring & button to provide a clean release when the teat is pressed. You can probably make yours work OK without this addition but I thought I'd warn you anyway. This job used the maximum of the original parts and the minimum of bought ones, I even used the original 1891 bolt handle and welded it into a pear-shaped one like the later sporters. (I'm just cheap. And retired, G)

Remember that this rifle has been converted to 223; the smaller case is easier to adapt to a hidden magazine but I believe a Rem 788 mag for 243/308 or 6mm or 30-30 might work OK for the Swift with careful adaptation. I attached my own Rem 788 223 magazine permanently to the hinged 1909 floorplate with silver solder but I suggest you make your magazine detachable, held in place by the 1909 floorplate or a separate latch. I wish I had done mine that way and may yet change it, would make it a lot easier to load the magazine.
Regards, Joe

What is required to swap out the later model striker assy and bolt sleeve?

I used the striker assembly from an 1895; everything is same-same and fits fine except the firing pin nose is slightly longer in the 1895, maybe 1/4" or so. I simply ground the nose back, maintaining the same taper, shape & contour and keeping my grind-&-polish lines parallel to the pin's body so as not to create any stress risers. Then converted to upcock using a Dayton-Traister cocking piece from Brownell's. The 1895 bolt sleeve can be used as-is but I didn't like its looks so I shortened it to accept an 1898 low scope safety, a Jaeger/FN wing style on the left side. Then shortened the rear of the new cocking piece & striker to match the short bolt sleeve, but next time I'll probably leave about 1/8" of the cocking piece to protrude since I think it looks a little better that way.

The main reason I used the 1895 striker was so I could more easily convert to upcock using a purchased cocking piece, since none are available for the 1891 and a bench-fabbed conversion is a real PITA. I also used an 1898 bolt stop/ejector box, again for its looks since the original 1891 part still works fine.

The reason I had an extra 1895 striker assembly lying around the shop is that I converted the 1895 to use an 1898 bolt assembly, makes up into a mighty cute little small-ring Mauser.....
Regards, Joe

Well I'm going to get some parts together.
But I think I'll see If I can convert it to a fully functioning flush mount mag well (98 style)
It'll be a bit of work the get the mag well to fit and cutting the internal feed lips. There's not much material to remove so it should be fine. Then highly modified bottom metal it should be fine.
I have a 1898 to compare to so we'll give it a shot.
Worst that could happen is i screw up an action that cost $150 twenty years ago.

if you are going to give it to a friend, do it in 7 or 8 x57 ... then you can share loads, he can shoot milsurp, and there might be a box of ammo at walmart...

6mm rem MIGHT be the next best choice for ammo availability

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
I used the striker assembly from an 1895; everything is same-same and fits fine except the firing pin nose is slightly longer in the 1895, maybe 1/4" or so. I simply ground the nose back, maintaining the same taper, shape & contour and keeping my grind-&-polish lines parallel to the pin's body so as not to create any stress risers. Then converted to upcock using a Dayton-Traister cocking piece from Brownell's. The 1895 bolt sleeve can be used as-is but I didn't like its looks so I shortened it to accept an 1898 low scope safety, a Jaeger/FN wing style on the left side. Then shortened the rear of the new cocking piece & striker to match the short bolt sleeve, but next time I'll probably leave about 1/8" of the cocking piece to protrude since I think it looks a little better that way.

The main reason I used the 1895 striker was so I could more easily convert to upcock using a purchased cocking piece, since none are available for the 1891 and a bench-fabbed conversion is a real PITA. I also used an 1898 bolt stop/ejector box, again for its looks since the original 1891 part still works fine.

The reason I had an extra 1895 striker assembly lying around the shop is that I converted the 1895 to use an 1898 bolt assembly, makes up into a mighty cute little small-ring Mauser.....
Regards, Joe

Thanks for the details. I have both 94 & 95 strikers to look at.
A M98 bolt sleeve screws right in but the tang of the M91 needs to be cut down to clear.

2nd that
I've had this rile or quite some time and always wanted to dress it up, Make it more commercial looking or half arsed custom. Buddy of mine gave me a claro walnut stock semi inleted semi finished with a shadow line cheek piece I want get this thing barreled and bedded in the stock. Now I can get rid of that ugly bottom metal. Maybe try to convert it to take a dayton trigger for a 98
But anyway thank or the info.

kcscott,
Don't know if you're still watching this thread or not, but Huber Concepts makes a trigger for the 91 Argentine, adn has them in stock right now through their website. Here's the link for you:

http://www.huberconcepts.com/A...gger_Replacement.htm

Hope this helps you!
Jeremy

Thanks I've always looked for a trigger but could never find one

THANK YOU for this thread, FINALLY!!!

Back around 1972 or 3, I bought a '91 Argentine Carbine (I was about 11 or 12...). EDIT: For $29.99!!!!

Unfortunately (as it turns out?) I immediately started "sporterizing" it under my dad's "tutelage."

I have been thinking I would like to "spin on" a 7 x 57 military take-off rifle barrel.

Would this be a reasonable conversion?

Anyone have a barrel they would sell CHEAP for this project?

The 7x57 is a good conversion for the 1891 except that some loads would be slightly too long for the magazine, so you might have to seat the bullets a little deeper. The 1891 front ring is longer than other Mausers and so if swapping bbls you'll also have to either shorten the front ring or lengthen the barrel thread tenon, no big deal either way. I have original 1891 parts including an OK carbine barrel in 7.65, also a nice NOS 7x57 military barrel that could be used as well as a 243 commercial bbl, email me at treeblood1 aht ayoell daht cahm.
Regards, Joe

Email sent, Joe!

Sarco sells a madsen barrel in 7x57 for $27.50. They have 1.045" x 12 threads and clean up nice to .990". They shoot great. Needs lathe work to go into a sporter. Just one option. There has to be two million 7x57 takeoff barrels out there which will screw right on.

Paul,

A take-off barrel is exactly what I've been thinking of (cheap!).

I sent an email to Joe and am waiting for a reply regarding the barrel and installation.

For a fun plinker/small game rifle, rebarrel to 45 ACP. Fit a shortened 1911 magazine into the front of the Mauser magazine.

No, I haven't done it yet. Just waiting for a good buy.

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:
THANK YOU for this thread, FINALLY!!!

Back around 1972 or 3, I bought a '91 Argentine Carbine (I was about 11 or 12...). EDIT: For $29.99!!!!

1967, Century Arms: '95 Chilean Mauser, unissued, they screwed me for $39.95 and postage, the bastards...