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I have five of these and it appears as though while they are large ring actions the barrel threads are small. These actions (actually whole guns right now) are incredibly smooth as the bolt slides thru them like a hot knife thru butter. All five of these actions will be sent to heat treat at one time as the cost is per batch and not each! I'd like to turn them into small ring actions given the barrel thread diameter but I'm not sure what customers will want. All of these will be offered for sale with D&T and any options folks want. Is anyone out there interested in a heat treated M'98 small ring 30-06 size action with small barrel thread? That's what I bought them for several years ago but the VZ-24 has taken over my interest! What's your advice on these excellent actions? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | ||
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I have ~50 of the Turkish Mauser actions made at Oberndorf between 1903 and 1905 in 7.65 Mauser and rebarrelled and re stocked in the 1930s to 8x57mm. These can be immediately idenified by the semicircular notch in the large ring to accomodate the longer cartridge on stripper clips. The bolts are shorter. These sold for 4/$100 delivered for years from Century. 80% have bad barrels, 10% have ok barrels and and 10% have minty barrels. Most have pitting below the stock line. The mag boxes have been modified for the longer cartridge. Original workmanship is very good, the repairs are very poor. I have ~4 of the 1938 Turkish Mauser actions made in Turkey to 8x57mm. Most have minty barrels. The bolts are longer. Original workmanship is ok, condition is usually very good, with little or no repairs. Here is a picture of two 1903 Turks before and after sporterizing:  | |||
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No...these are made from 1941 to 1943 and are long actions. Large ring, small barrel thread. I'll post a pic in a minute or two. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Id rather see you leave the front ring alone, large ring. I see alot of small ring 98 with no markings for sale that no one knows what the heck they are or if they are even safe. Id just leave it what it is. K Kales are the good ones. | |||
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These are K.Kales and you can make some dandy rifles out of them. You can rethread factory take-off barrels for them if you have a lathe. Here is a 30-06 built on a 1944 K.Kale that uses a rethreaded Rem 700 barrel. It is an honest 1" hunting rifle.  Turks make dandy sporters, but they do not make dandy magnum sporters. They also don't exactly (IMO) make good expensive sporters. Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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Here's a pic of the crest and a 30-06 shell in it.  Yes, Tex, they are K Kales as the photoshows but I wouldn't think they would be a concern if the actions were heat treated.....again...these are marvelously smooth. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog, That action/30-06 in the photo has 84mm bottom port? | |||
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I'd say it's closer to 82.5 MM /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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If I cleaned up the actions and had them heat treated and nothing more.....what would you think be a reasonable price? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Lots of them for $70- 130 on gunbroker | |||
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heat treated? /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog, Have those actions blueprinted too. It'll be great for us emotional folks. | |||
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Why would they need heat treating? | |||
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In fact they may not!!!!! I'm not at all interested in getting into another heat treat thread.....another no winners issue!!! This, however is true: Almost every professional gunsmith on this forum advocates heat treating a Mauser action and I have also said that if one is going to spend a lot of money on a Mauser project then heat treating is a cheap insurance. This even though none of my Mausers are heat treated! I'd heat treat these as the cost is nearly nothing.....I was quoted a price on the entire batch and if done individually the price would be the same as for the batch. I did some light filing on these K Kales receivers and they appear to be substantially beyond "dead soft" very much like the VZ-24 rifles. However a file in not a rockwell tester and this is a bad way to make decisions. The short answer is: Piece of mind if nothing else. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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This is an intertesting post on Heat treat, particularly the bit from system98(Tom Burgess) https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=222105131#222105131 | |||
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Vapo, I just read the posts again on heat treating and since they can be batch done for not much cost, of course have it done! Have you considered welding up the side and bridge notches prior to "cleanup" and carburizing so as to have a "c" ring commerial style action? Not to be the bearer of bad news, but wasn't there a thread somewhere that explained why grinding a Turk mauser to small ring was not a good idea? Or is my memory failing me... AGAIN? Old age has caused some of my memories to "blend" together!  I was thinking of purchasing a couple of these actions myself with an eye towards making up a commercial style small ring mauser, but was talked out of it by responses here on the AR. Did I misunderstand what was said? And I hope so, because I still like the idea! Only I have in mind a svelt 7X57, Maybe I'd be better off with an HVA action? Boy I sure like the looks of that rifle at the top in tnekkcc's post! Keep us posted! Regards, Don | |||
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Don, I believe it's illadvised to grind a large ring to small ring if it has a large barrel thread. These actions have small barrel threads and I thought for 7 X 57, 6.5 X 55, 6mm Rem, .257 Rob, these would be very good. Here's the trick.....as much as I think grinding them is a good idea, I've not traveled this road before and if someone else has, learn from them!!!!! I'd grind and then heat treat the actions to regain a tough surface on the ring OD Heat treating first and then grinding is a little defeating except for the lug seats. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=620105345#620105345 Check out the posts of Z1R | |||
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If you grind the front ring down to a small ring there is little metal left over the locking lugs. If a case lets go it may blow out. Thats why Mauser made the large ring to begin with. Good Luck! | |||
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Thanks Don....I remember reading that thread but forgot about the relief cut on the ring ID....when I remove the barrels, I'll be sure to look for this feature. Several good posts by Leeper and Z1R there. This is my first experience with K Kales....all are 1941 to 1943 dates. I'm becoming confident that if properly heat treated and left large ring, these will make very good project actions. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Hawkins, hmm, noy exactly, 2 cases... the mexican mauser, small ring 98, uses just about the same bolt as other 98s (lots of differences but nothing that matters in the relationship of lugs and rings) . the strength in the lugs in BACK not OUT, so to speak. or the large ring thread, small ring actions, .. though i forget the model/make, that have been done... but, again, that's infront of the lugs. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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No doubt about it!  | |||
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I stripped them all down to actions today and threw the actions into the degreasing tank and walla.....these are interesting. The thread relief is real!!!...I can't say how much but clearly enough that I'm not risking any small rings with these actions. Also the receiver is counter bored about 3/16".....and I will grind that off square to the thread. There is absolutely no pitting at all on these actions. Some surfaces are a bit crude but will polish up very well. There was a few folks wanting VZ-24 actions and for those of you that want them, I'll send them to heat treat as well...let me know /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkmain.html it's a fresh wind that ... Blows Against the Empire | |||
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ned, thanks for that link. It's a good read and I appreciate it. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I wasn't refering to the strength of the lugs. The 93 and 95 actions will hold quite a bit with their lugs However if a case lets go the action may blow the receiver in front of the lugs. The bolt will stay in but the metal there is quite thin. Why do you think Mauser went to a large ring action? Good Luck! | |||
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