Thinking of making a couple of Mauser barrel stubs to practice feed work with. Is it legal for a home hobbyist to cut down an old military Mauser barrel to just a few inches, drill the the bore out to a desired I.D., and then chamber it with a hand reamer? Thanks
Matt

Sounds like you're making a pistol to me. Would you be able to do what you want with a big hole drilled through the chamber?

If the action has ever had a stock, no.

But, unless they inspect your home, who gives a shit.

as you described NO, its not legal - if capable of firing, you are making an SBR, which requires license and paperwork ---

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE -- TALK TO THE ATF ---

but why not a SKINNY milsurp barrel, t

thin the barrel WAY down, that way it fits in most stocks

weld the end of the barrel stub closed?

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
weld the end of the barrel stub closed?

Yep....plug and weld

That is dangerous practice to weld up the muzzle end and not the chamber end. The safest and probably the only legal way is to have a junked full length barrel, over 16 inches.

The law is the law. 16 inches for a rifle no matter what the purpose. Shorter than 16 inches are SBR's, which are legal with federal paperwork.

Isn't he just talking about hand threading a short barrel stub on for a temporary application as if it were a tool or a jig? He isn't permanently installing this on the firearm, does that make a difference?

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Isn't he just talking about hand threading a short barrel stub on for a temporary application as if it were a tool or a jig?

That is his intent until the ATF happens to see it.
As dpcd said if it is to be a feeding tool simply drill a large hole through the chamber then it for sure a tool not short barrel.

When it come to the ATF and Gov better safe than sorry. Don't expect them to think on their own

If the barrel/stub is less than 16 inches, and will chamber and fire a round, it is illegal. Even if the end is welded and a hole in the chamber. Even if the gun is destroyed by firing. If it will fire once it is a SBR. You can make a stub from round stock and short chamber it so that a round will not chamber all the way. This will allow you to tune rails and do final fitting with the barrel installed.

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chamber and fire a round, it is illegal

Learned something new.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I am not sure he got that info from the BATF. Fire a round, with relative safety, yes. If it kills the firer in the process, I say no. Guess we need to ask. But, Speer is not in the USA, he is in Canada, where they have some different rules.

Very strange here. I`m licensed to work on all types of weapons regardless of type, up to and including prohibited weapons like machine guns. But, it`s technically illegal for me to cut a barrel shorter than 18 inches with the type of license that I have.
If on the other hand I purchased a Manufacturers license, then I could technically produce barrels from scratch to any length I wanted providing they were not designed to be used on handguns or restricted or prohibited firearms.
As an example, Dlask makes barrels for the 870 shotgun that are 8.5 inches in length. This is all perfectly legal as long as the owner installs them on a gun that will be at least 26 inches long in overall length after the installation. Installing it on a shotgun with a folding buttstock is perfectly legal. Folding the stock over makes it illegal. Even with the manufacturers license I don`t believe that Dlask could modify a production made barrel from Remington shorter than 18 inches. It gets very convoluted.

http://dlaskarms.com/collections/870-shorty

I have over the years cut barrels shorter than 18 inches and made suppressors for different police functions. All I had to do for that was inform the Chief Provincial Firearms Office as to what I was doing and then make them and ship them off. There were no permits of any type required, no one came to check up on me and no one ever inspected the devices. The last ones I did were about 15 years ago and I cut some 700 Remingtons in 30-06 to 14 inches for Fish & Wildlife. I think they were going in helicopters. I called the CFOs office for permission and they were rather upset that I was bothering them with such trivialities and told me to just do what the Fish Cops wanted and leave them alone.

It`s a funny, fawked up world we live in.

If the resulting stub is so short that the bullet end protrudes BEYOND the muzzle end of the stub, in other words make the cut well before the throat and rifling even start, then you do not have a barrel, you have a STUB. A stub is not a barrel, therefore when the stub is screwed on to the action you do not have a short barreled rifle.

Or you could assemble the action, slip a cartridge under the extractor and surrender to the BATF for creating an NBR.

quote:

I am not sure he got that info from the BATF. Fire a round, with relative safety, yes. If it kills the firer in the process, I say no. Guess we need to ask. But, Speer is not in the USA, he is in Canada, where they have some different rules.

I got that info from the BATF several years ago. I doubt they have gotten more lenient.

Please post the letter you got from them. Verbal don't count with them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Please post the letter you got from them. Verbal don't count with them.

In my cross boarder dealings with the BATF, USA Customs Department and the USA Department of Commerce where shotguns are concerned. I can unequivocally state that all three of these bureaucratic functions have ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY no sense of humor what-so-ever when it comes to even getting grey with their happy little laws and bureaucracy.
They are even more miserable to deal with than the DMV. I swear on a stack of bibles that they force those people to work all day without coffee and keep their office temperatures in the high 80s while listening to old, scratched up Ethel Merman records all day. They probably even have a Dilton Doily guy that runs his nails down a chalk board every time some one smiles.

Disgusting, miserable bunch of creatures the whole bloody lot of them !

There are a lot of things I may spend some time worrying about. Is my knee going to make it through another sheep season? Should I buy new boots this year or wait a year? Which rifle should I plan to use as my primary? Should I take out some fish for supper or go with chicken? Should I get up and see what the dog is barking about?
No matter how long I make the list, the question as to whether or not I might go against some bureaucrat's wishes while in my own shop or own home doesn't even come close to making the cut. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
There are a lot of things I may spend some time worrying about. Is my knee going to make it through another sheep season? Should I buy new boots this year or wait a year? Which rifle should I plan to use as my primary? Should I take out some fish for supper or go with chicken? Should I get up and see what the dog is barking about?
No matter how long I make the list, the question as to whether or not I might go against some bureaucrat's wishes while in my own shop or own home doesn't even come close to making the cut. Regards, Bill.

Na ha. I seem to recall a story about a guy that punched out a mall cop who was hassling one of his kids about one thing or another. A very interesting approach to the conventional, boring methods of tact and negotiation. But judging from the outcome a very convincing method of attrition !

LMAO ROFF

quote:

No matter how long I make the list, the question as to whether or not I might go against some bureaucrat's wishes while in my own shop or own home doesn't even come close to making the cut

I have had numerous dealings with the NFA Branch of BATFE. The NFA specs are not flexible. The people who work there, are very helpful and friendly. If you have something improper on a Form 1, they will line it out and send it back to you for correction. They give you a special envelope which places your corrected from on top of the pile and they act on it as soon as they get it, and when all done correctly, they will approve the form with all kind of pen and ink corrections. They could just reject it and make you start from scratch with all of the waiting, but they don't.

The Firearms Technology Branch is on the other end of the scale from NFA Branch. The firearms technology branch deemed a rubber band assisted trigger as a machinegun. A barrel less than 16 inches is a SBR and requires a tax stamp...period. They don't care why it is installed and for how long.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
There are a lot of things I may spend some time worrying about. Is my knee going to make it through another sheep season? Should I buy new boots this year or wait a year? Which rifle should I plan to use as my primary? Should I take out some fish for supper or go with chicken? Should I get up and see what the dog is barking about?
No matter how long I make the list, the question as to whether or not I might go against some bureaucrat's wishes while in my own shop or own home doesn't even come close to making the cut. Regards, Bill.

Brilliantly stated! :-)

The regs are quite simple. A rifle must have a barrel longer than 16 inches. There are no provisions or exceptions for if it functions Safely or not at all. There are a very few specific exceptions and they are spelled out by Make/model number/serial number range etc.

You could make assorted barrel studs and weld 3/8 pipe to them, but they will need to be 18 inches long as they would be smoothbore. The BATFE is much stricter on smoothbores; they will not give exception to the Marble's Gamegetter because of the smoothbore.

ETA: From BATFE website, Firearms, Q&A's

An unserviceable firearm is defined as one which is incapable of discharging a shot by means of an explosive and which is incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition.

An acceptable method of rendering most firearms unserviceable is to fusion weld the chamber closed and fusion weld the barrel solidly to the frame. Certain unusual firearms require other methods to render the firearms unserviceable.

An unserviceable NFA firearm is still subject to the controls of the NFA, but may be transferred tax free as a curio or ornament.

[26 U.S.C. 5845(h) and 5852, 27 CFR 479.11and 479.91]

ETA2: May a FFL or an individual legally possess the parts to manufacture an SBR or SBS as long as no firearms are actually assembled?

A FFL (Type-7 or Type-10) who pays the Special Occupational Tax (SOT) may possess parts required to assemble NFA firearms. A non-licensee or FFL who has not paid the SOT is required to register any NFA firearm via an ATF Form 1 (5320.1) prior to acquisition of the parts required to assemble such firearm.

Evidently, that settles it.
airgun1,

Thanks fella's!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Please post the letter you got from them. Verbal don't count with them.

Written doesn't count for much more.

The jails are full of "Sea Lawyer's" clients.

So, if I read this right, the minute you have a barrel on your rifle action that is less than 16", and you don't have the proper FFL, you are in violation of NFA rules? I went back and did a search about getting barrels off of 1917 Enfields. I seem to remember that there was a post about cutting the barrel and then cutting a groove in front of the receiver ring to ease the task. I could not find that post, but there was one from Yuman who stated that he would cut the barrel behind the rear sight of a certain model Mauser (don't remember which model) and then proceed with a procedure to remove the barrel. I would assume, then, that he and anyone else using this method is therefore in violation of the NFA laws? I looked at the ATF site and there was a question asked about SBR's. The answer was that unless the FFL was a type 07 or 10 (I believe those were the ones), that mere POSSESSION of a rifle barrel less than 16" in length is against the law. I might have read this wrong, but if need be I will try and find the question again and copy and paste it. Just wondering how many gunsmiths, gun dealers or hobbyists have unknowingly been a felon.

Yes they were accidental felons, but felons none the less. Constructive possession is a crime per the letter of the law as stated in the second FAQ in my post. AR-15 guys get around that a bit by having a pistol receiver on hand while they are building an SBR, short barreled rifle.

Why not just make the stub without a hole in the end?

Just take a full diameter blank and drill a caliber sized hole in it all the way except the last 1/2", then chamber and throat it as required.

You can put a hole in the side of the plug, ahead of the throat for cutting oil to exit during the flush.

Because that is just like welding the bore closed. If the round will chamber, it can fire. You are making a very dangerous tool.

quote:

Thinking of making a couple of Mauser barrel stubs to practice feed work with.

Why not just use the barrel that is on the receiver? If it does not have a barrel you will need one. Scrap Mauser barrels are easy to come by, get one. Any feed rail fiddling should be done with the real barrel installed. I can not see any reason for this idea......

Barrel stubs can be very helpful to sleeve with another barrel though.

In regard to rifling, keep in mind that a shotgun barrel has no rifling, and is still considered a weapon barrel. Restrictions apply.