Ted Blackburn has nothing I can use on hand. I spoke to Duane Wiebe on the phone yesterday. He may have something I can use pretty soon, but the box is too short and probably too deep. I wrote Sunny Hill an email tonight. Maybe they have what I need. I'll have to wait and see. My gunmaker says a Blackburn model 18X will probably work, (with a little modification) but Maggie says they are all out, and I get the impression that Ted is about done with his business. Does anyone have a Blackburn model 18X lying around that they want to sell me? We need the bottom metal to open up to rear as much as possible. Can't really get this project started without bottom metal. Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

P.S.
Selby's rifle holds three down. You can get a fourth round into the magazine, but the bolt will feed the fourth round, and close over only three. This is acording to Lane Simpson's examination of Selby's rifle.
Matt

Interesting project Matt.

I have actually thought of the same, just with the .450Rigby-Rimless.
As regarding the magazine, I would buy the Duane Wiebe .500 jeffery metal. Have the gunsmith to extend the rear, and perhaps have the inner space of the box reduced, so the cartridges could aline better for feeding?. I wouldn`t know how .416Rigby cartridges would feed from a .500Jeffery wide box?.
Good luck

Matt

PM sent.

James

yes ... get duane to take his magnum ENFIELD bottom metal and adjust the magbox accordingly

quote:

Originally posted by J Bennett:
Matt

PM sent.

James

PM responded to.
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
yes ... get duane to take his magnum ENFIELD bottom metal and adjust the magbox accordingly

Do the enfield's and 98's have the same hole spacing and action bottom dimentions?

quote:

Do the enfield's and 98's have the same hole spacing and action bottom dimentions?

No.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
yes ... get duane to take his magnum ENFIELD bottom metal and adjust the magbox accordingly

Jeffe, I think Duane's Enfield metal might work but it doesn't come with a box. It is meant to use a separate box like the three piece original. I have one and there is a lot of room for modifcation to fit the mag box of your choice. Up to 505 Gibbs if I am measuring correctly. It's not authentic to the Mauser Rigby but it is as nice or nicer.

Colorado Matt: I believe we spoke about a 416 Rigby on a standard 98??? Our 4MJ or 4MXJ would be the best choice. The inside of the box is 3.610+-. This will fit acvailable off the shelf factory made ammo. IF you need to go to CIP max of 3.75 (That's ..150 extra!) You CAN grind a Maximum off the bolt stop of .040...still leaves you .110 shy.

A new bolt stop, ejector housing CAN be made..all you need is $$$$$. This would extend the bolt back another .150...gets pretty sloppy. Part of the RH lug is going to be out of the R.H. raceway.

Using an Enfield unit just will not work. The bottom metal is not the problem, it's the constraints of the action

I wouold not advise anyone to take the other .110 off the front.

I am not certain that ALL current factory ammo is 3.6". I don't know how long Hornady's factory ammo is, but handloads with the old 400gr bullets are at 3.7". I haven't measured examples of all available, but it seems to me that there has to be some that exceed 3.6". I have an old single round of Kynock 400gr solid that measures 3.74". I would like to be able to load any round that I happen to come across. Some good advice that I was given on another AR post was, what if I lose my ammo in the deepest darkest and the only ammo I can find is the really long stuff. I feel certain that Rigby never made a .416 on any action that would not load everything available.

Duane, I believe that you told me that the 4MX is not a drop box, and the 4mxJ is a drop box. I need a drop box, but I would prefer that the box be similar in depth to the Selby rifle. It seems to me (I may be totally wrong) that the 4mxJ will be too deep and give the rifle a bulkeir look and feel than Selby's rifle. I may ultimately have to go this route, but I would like to keep the dimensions of this rifle as close to Selby's as possible. Thanks for all of the advice. I will talk to my gunmaker.
Matt

quote:

You CAN grind a Maximum off the bolt stop of .040

Here is a link to a five year old post on AR by Stuart Satterlee saying that he grinds off 0.110" from the bolt stop when converting standard 98's to 416 Rigby. He goes on to say that he has done several of these conversions. Several years ago I spoke to Stuart about doing this rifle for me, but I fell on hard times, he seemed to fall on hard times by falling behind on his orders, and now his website says that this kind of action work will cost twice what he quoted me way back then, otherwise I would have approached him again do this project at this time.

forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/744104963?r=400108963#400108963

Duane:
I'm not trying to drag you into a pissing match, and I certainly respect your knowledge and expertise. I am also NOT trying to put you or Stuart Satterlee on the spot, so to speak. I am just in a quest for knowledge. No one here on AR invented the wheel. I don't know who to believe in terms of what is safe/reliable/functional. I just have to believe that however Rigby originally did Selby's conversion, it took 3.75" rounds and was obviously safe.

Matt

Duane has stated .040 is the max to move things to the rear. I "believe" that some of his peers feel safe taking more than .040" out of the rear.

IIRC Jim Wisner's bottom metal moves things to the rear about .080" or .100". You might ask him about this. Wisner's 458 lott bottom metal for the mauser was about 3.700", IIRC.

Also, D'arcy Echols was planning to produce some "magnum" bolt-stops that would allow more rearward movement.

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
I just have to believe that however Rigby originally did Selby's conversion, it took 3.75" rounds and was obviously safe.

I think you are making one hell of an assumption. I believe the max length on the rigby is 3.720" or 3.750 depending on who you believe, and there is no reason to believe any were loaded that long back in the day.

The max OAL on the 30-06 is 3.340" but most factory loads are about 3.250 or less, just as an example.

I would not be surprised if we found out that Selby's rifle had a box that was under 3.720".

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:

quote:

You CAN grind a Maximum off the bolt stop of .040

Here is a link to a five year old post on AR by Stuart Satterlee saying that he grinds off 0.110" from the bolt stop when converting standard 98's to 416 Rigby. He goes on to say that he has done several of these conversions. Several years ago I spoke to Stuart about doing this rifle for me, but I fell on hard times, he seemed to fall on hard times by falling behind on his orders, and now his website says that this kind of action work will cost twice what he quoted me way back then, otherwise I would have approached him again do this project at this time.

forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/744104963?r=400108963#400108963

Duane:
I'm not trying to drag you into a pissing match, and I certainly respect your knowledge and expertise. I am also NOT trying to put you or Stuart Satterlee on the spot, so to speak. I am just in a quest for knowledge. No one here on AR invented the wheel. I don't know who to believe in terms of what is safe/reliable/functional. I just have to believe that however Rigby originally did Selby's conversion, it took 3.75" rounds and was obviously safe.

I'm not saying it CAN'T be done, but the 98 bolt stop is .204 thick..If you grind off .110...well,,be REAL careful about pulling the bolt back against the stop, because you don't have much meat left. The rear of the stop tapers quite rapidly...I'm going to bet there is just not much left to actually stop the bolt.

In fact, looking at it closer, I don't think the bolt actually WILL be stopped.

Duane:
Thanks again for the advise. How many 416 Rigby rounds do you think your 4mxJ bottom metal will hold?

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
Duane:
Thanks again for the advise. How many 416 Rigby rounds do you think your 4mxJ bottom metal will hold?

It will hold three down with room to depress the top round to single load... I THINK the inside could be widened enough for four

This sounds like what I am looking for. An AR member was kind enough to send a Blackburn model 18x to my gunmaker to see if it would work. If it is too small, I will be getting back in touch with you.
Matt

My mistake, Matt...the 4mxJ will hold four down easily...I don't think it will take five.


It's the 4MX that will easily hold three...sorry

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
This sounds like what I am looking for. An AR member was kind enough to send a Blackburn model 18x to my gunmaker to see if it would work. If it is too small, I will be getting back in touch with you.
Matt

Matt

As much as I like Blackburn products, if I were trying to replicate the Selby rifle I would definitely prefer the trigger guard shape on the Sound Metal Products guard over the Blackburn. The Blackburn egg shaped guard looks great on certain rifles, but I feel it would look odd with what you're trying to achieve.

Just a thought.

cheers,
- stu

If I got in a bind in deepest dark Africa, I would cut .100" off the tip of the bullet. Problem solved. I believe some of these mods are what makes a rifle go over budget!
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
If I got in a bind in deepest dark Africa, I would cut .100" off the tip of the bullet. Problem solved. I believe some of these mods are what makes a rifle go over budget!
Butch

Interesting thought! And I agree with you about the last .050" costing too much(JMO).

If the rifle were chambered to standard Rigby specs it could still be used with all off-the -shelf ammo. If the round happened to be too long for the mag it could still be fired as a single shot.

I would make sure the mag would accept 3.700 OAL, which is .050 under spec, and be done with it. But that's just me.

I would sure like to know how long a cartridge Selby's Rigby will accept.

Has anyone tried to get a hold of Frank Lyons,(isn't that the right name) at Wing Meade?

Seems someone who bought Selbys' Rigby would more than likely be happy to talk about it.

no problem if you just want a rigby on a mauser, and are willing to cut corners ..

BUT, if you want to duplicate THE rigby mauser 98, then, well, either do it or done ..

call frank and ASK HIM to measure the inside length -- and build to that.

and yeah, a pocket knife would cut the tips off softs, but not solids..

and you kind of loose the ability to do solid on bottom, softs of top...

but it aint my project, or my money, just saying how i THINK i would do it...

and now we are to WHY i designed the ARs to fit in standard length actions, matching "classic" performance or better ... the per .01 price is pretty high