I have a customers Model 70 in .458 Win Mag that he had someone up in Alaska lenghten the chamber to .458 Lott.

He has asked me to lengthen the magazine box to accomodate the longer Lott cartridges. It appears feasible to lengthen the front about 1/10"- 1/8", then remove about the same amount off of the feed ramp. Is this a Kosher procedure? It seems that weakening the lower locking lug area is not too swift an idea, even though it wouldn't be all that much.

Not much room to move it to the back, as the middle guard screw is nearly butted against the magazine box backside. Anybody have any ideas on this procedure? All suggestions appreciated. Thanks! Joe

Max overall length for the Lott is 3.60", the same as the 375H&H etc. Why not just swap in the right length box from Winchester?

Shouldn't be any need to whittle on the receiver unless the owner is wanting to run some extra long OAL cartridges...

I don't know what box is in there now, but a longer one wouldn't fit as far as I can tell. The cartridges he supplied are handloads. I'll have to check the Overall length of them. Perhaps his loads are longer than Factory Lott's. Thanks for the info McCray. Joe

the box is like 20 bucks from brownells..
you do NOT want to go through changing the winnie box to work, as it controls the feeding

jeffe

The longer box will drop right in. The shorter box has a spacer in the back, but has the same overall length as the longer one.

The ejection and loading port need to be milled rearward, not forward, to ensure proper function. A new scope mounting hole will need to be added to the rear bridge, and the bolt stop shortened. Also, the portion of the action directly behind the box that houses the middle guard screw will need to be dished or angled to prevent cartridge hangups. Of course a new box and follower need to be installed.

I would advise the client to go elsewhere.

Chuck

Are all of the Model 70's with the 375 length action or did they make "standard" length actions as well?

You did not say which M70 action it is.

If it a PRE 64 M70, then MAJOR MACHINE WORK will be needed to convert a standard length action to a long magnum.

If it a post 64 M70 (push feed or a classic action). Then yes a new magazine box, ejector, follower and spring will be needed.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

quote:

You did not say which M70 action it is.

Uhh, good point!

Chuck

Ooops. I assumed!

Thanks for all the input gentlemen. Sorry for not thinking to include that it is a Classic Magnum action, and it already has the longest magazine box that could concievably fit in the alloted space, as far as I can tell.

The ejector and bolt stop are the shorter ones, and a loaded round ejects just fine. Follower is about 1/8" shorter than the box; appears to be correct.

His handloads are 3.636" OAL. Someone has filed out the front and rear insides of the box, apparently in an effort to accomodate the overlength handload. This thinning has weakend the front and recoil has rounded it out and deformed it.

I'm starting to like the advice about suggesting the client go elsewhere! Joe

Seat the bullets deeper. That O.A.L. is to long for that cartridge in that action.

Chuck

That's exactly what I suggested to him, but he wants to use the longer handloads that he has worked up. Go figure.

He can't put a square peg in a round hole. Politely tell him he's an idiot.

Chuck

Now, now, you can't just go telling people they are idiots even when the truth of the statement is plain. Better to simply say, "Yep, that box is too short alright. Bummer. Have a nice day."
Once convinced that the box will always be too short, even the most obtuse of shooters may eventually hit on the idea of seating the bullets deeper. An explanation that a little extra jump is beneficial for a dangerous game rifle to avoid unwanted pressure spikes and improve reliabilty might help to steer the shooter in the right direction.
It is much better too gently steer him in the right direction rather than to say, "You're as dumb as a sheep buddy. That cartridge is too long."
An alternative might be to say, "I think we can lengthen that out and get it to work just fine for about $250.00."
Often, an individual who apparently has difficulty recognizing mechanical reality will understand economic reality much better. Regards, Bill.

Well, maybe you could remove metal at the rear, leaving the locking lug alone. Then make a new box from scratch and sell him new bottom metal that doesn't use the third screw.

The reason I say leave the lug alone is cause anyone that bull headed is sure to be overloading his shells and he needs all the metal he can get to keep the bolt out of his forehead, and you out of court when it happens.

All in all, he sounds like either a gobbling twit or a PhD.

quote:

An alternative might be to say, "I think we can lengthen that out and get it to work just fine for about $250.00."
Often, an individual who apparently has difficulty recognizing mechanical reality will understand economic reality much better. Regards, Bill.

Bill is definitely on the right track, however I'd be looking at charging about 3 times that, so that it definitely changes his mind towards listening to the notion of seating the bullets deeper.....If that doesn't work, I'd politely turn down the job and explain why. You might get the business from him on another job that you feel more comfortable with, as well as him understanding why you did.

Just a thought

My inclination would be to presume that the customer is always right (The operative word is presume. We all know that every defendant is guilty or else the cops wouldn't have arrested him.) The customer may be dumb, and with any luck, he is dumb enough to make this job worthwhile and economically beneficial to you.

Of course, there his shooting buddy or PH will some day point out that his gunsmith skinned him alive. Just make sure to include an alternative offer to screw his bullet seater in half a turn for a dollar.

H. C.

I said. "Politely".

Chuck

i think i would have to tell this guy.."these are mechincal limits"... we can DO more work.. it's 50 bucks an hour....

jeffe

Seating the bullets deeper into the case can be a good idea, but this is tough to practically accomplish (unless you'll be happy with a single-shot) with a cartridge like the .458 Lott.

Obviously, the Lott has plenty of back-shove, and it's not at all uncommon for bullets to seat themselves even deeper into the case under recoil, meaning of course cartridges that remain in the magazine will be subject to recoil-caused bullet setback. The .458 Lott requires crimping, and you need bullets with cannelures in order to properly accomplish this. So the cartridge's OAL will be determined by the position of the bullet's cannelure.

I guess you could try a Lee crimping die that will actually force a cannelure and crimp into the bullet at any point you choose, but this might compromise the integrity of the bullet, and possibly accuracy, although Lee claims it won't.

It's much better to get a proper box & follower to begin with, and possibly USRAC could supply those parts via Brownell's. Loading port work, etc., will still require 'smithing.

AD

Allen, it sounds like this has already been done. He wants something longer than the 375 length box.

Chuck

Chuck, yes, that's certainly true but I'm not referring to a .375 H&H box. I should have been clearer in what I was trying to get at.

USRAC now makes Model 70s in .458 Lott, and these do have special boxes and followers. I've handled a couple of those rifles and the parts are different. I don't know if they're available as replacment parts from USRAC yet or not, but I would certainly call Brownells and ask:

http://www.brownells.com

AD

I didn't know that. Don't know a lot of things.

Chuck