When one has a clean bore and all other factors has been eliminated,what do you think would cause the first shot always off target. Like 2"high and 4" to the right. With factory and reloads alike? van

You said it yourself, the barrel is clean. It is also cold.

Shooting groups is fine, but it's the first shot from a cold barrel that counts on game.

George

FWIW Barnes TSX also like do not like a clean bore, rather they prefer a semi-fouled bore if you will.

wasn't it jeff cooper who said
"i believe 1 round groups"

I've got a 300win that shoots 3/4" groups.. but the first shot from a clean bore is ALWAYS 1" or so away, at 100... i haven't noticed this great of a drift in any of my other rifles...

but, of course, don't they still have "foulers" at most benchrest shoots? that might tell a fella a thing

jeffe

You could have a bedding or stress problem in the barrel. I've been lucky to have rifles that shoot well clean or dirty, hot or cold first shot.

Try a test. Don't clean the gun after a range session, and see if you get a flyer first shot at the next session. If your flier goes away, then just make sure you hunt with fouled bore.

I clean my bores as little as possible. If the accuracy is there, the only thing extra cleaning does is raise the risk of damaging the barrel.

Foulers is it, I thought they were sighters.

According to many, the stated problem is the norm.

Goodness sake, hasn't there ever been a gunsmith/barrel maker who can "prove" the cause.
I mean if it doesn't happen to all rifles, why does it happen to some.
Can it be eliminated. Is it some barrels get cleaned badly, so that fouling is just spread around in "clumps". (Now that wouldn't supprise me at all.)
I can well imagine various stages of roughness of the bore, unnatural accumulation of grud, patches of oil, solvents,grease,moly etc could take a few shots to iron things out so to speak.

And yet we have badly pitted bores that shoot well? I don't, but I had a second hand one once. Maybe they get pitted in a streamline fashon.

Gentlemen,

I think this depends on the rifle.

We take our rifles to Africa, after having them cleaned and oiled the barrels.

In the camp, I normally run a dry patch through each barrel, and check the zero.

I cannot remember ever having to reset anything, as all the shots, icluding teh first one, print very close together.

It sounds to me like you have a pressure point on the barrel as it heats up, but you sighted the rifle in for a warms barrel ignoring the cold barrel. Now your first shot is off, but the barrel warms to the way it is sighted in. Have the barrel relieved and try again letting the barrel cool between shots.

I had this in a 25-06 and it drove me nuts until a local 'Smith fixed it.

Being a benchrest shooter, I go through several barrels a year. Some are spot on with the first shot out of a clean cold barrel and some may be 1/4" off on the first shot. That doesn't mean that either are the best barrel, I just make sure it is fouled before the first record shot. After I have my hunting rifle ready to go, I clean it well and then fire 3-4 rounds to foul it and then take it hunting. I clean it after the season. The temp of the barrel doesn't seem to mean much, but a little fouling helps.
Butch