I'm trying to clean out a +100 year old Winchester Model 1890 for a friend. The bore is best described as black and "lumpy". I'm hoping it is decades of built up copper and powder deposits and not corrosion. But it is probably rust.

Test firing with open sights gave me a 3" group at 30 yards.

I used a copper solvent on it for a while and got nothing out. So I cleaned the bore with denatured alcohol to prep it for electrolytic cleaning. Using the lead acetate solution removed nothing. I've electrolytically cleaned a lead fouled 44 magnum bore and the lead comes off very quickly, so I don't think this bore has much lead in it.

I've trying the copper solution now. After a few hours I emptied out the solution and some black fouling came out; not sure if it is corrosion or powder residue. The solution came out the original blue color and the electrode was not plated with copper.

I'm going to leave it connected to the DC voltage for several more hours to see what happens. I will be cleaning the bore with denatured alcohol between attempts at electrolytically cleaning as using a petroleum based solvent/cleaner coats the bore and resists current flow.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Plug the muzzle and fill the bore with Evaporust or Minwax rust remover. Let it stand muzzle down in a plastic can overnight. Drain it, brush it, and patch it out to see what you got. I'm betting it is a sewer pipe. A re-line may be in order.

I would try some Wipeout.

Never heard of Minwax rust remover.

quote:

Evaporust

that works -- but when you say "lumpy" do you mean crawfish hole?

My mistake. That should be Rustoleum Rust Remover.

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:
I would try some Wipeout.

Never heard of Minwax rust remover.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Evaporust

that works -- but when you say "lumpy" do you mean crawfish hole?

I mean it looks like rust is rising from the surface of the barrel interior. I'm unable to get an in focus photo of the bore.

get a one under bronze brush, wrap a patch around the brush and coat well with J B bore paste.

I tried electrolytically cleaning with lead and copper solutions and nothing plated out on the electrode.

So I used a new bronze bore brush and wore it out after about 200 passes through the bore. I swabbed the bore clean every ten passes then reapplied more bore cleaner. The appearance of the bore improved enough for me to see major pitting about half way down the barrel on the bottom.

That sucks.

I shot another group at 25 yards and it improved from 3" to 2.5"; insignificant. I raised the rear sight but otherwise held at the bottom of the bull, no change in windage on the sight. Thanks for the input guys.



Ranb

Steel wool and 400 grit valve grinding compound. Fifty strokes or so should do all you are going to do. Regards, Bill.

Liner time!

quote:

Originally posted by ranb40:
I tried electrolytically cleaning with lead and copper solutions and nothing plated out on the electrode.

So I used a new bronze bore brush and wore it out after about 200 passes through the bore. I swabbed the bore clean every ten passes then reapplied more bore cleaner. The appearance of the bore improved enough for me to see major pitting about half way down the barrel on the bottom.

That sucks.

I shot another group at 25 yards and it improved from 3" to 2.5"; insignificant. I raised the rear sight but otherwise held at the bottom of the bull, no change in windage on the sight. Thanks for the input guys.



Ranb

I do a half hour soak with Hopppe's No 9 and then go back and forth like you did using any bore brush wrapped with 0000 steel wool wetted with No. 9. Reverse direction at various places in the bore to 'dig in'. Blot the brush with a white paper towel and you'll see what was in there. May need to plug the bore and fill with No. 9 for an overnight soak. It will come out. But, tough dried on gunk just takes a while to soften up.
No need to swab in between. A quick flush with WD-40 with a spray tube (muzzle down of course) is all you need.

I promise, when a bore is this bad, it does no harm to employ an abrasive. In fact, often this is the only way to smooth out a bore like this so it has a chance of shooting. It will never be a good barrel but it can be a usable barrel.
In the end, I agree with Bobster, a liner is a certain fix. Regards, Bill.

It is more of an heirloom, and not a shooter. Even if I were to inherit this fine rifle, I would not reline the bore.

I will keep working on the rifle and try to take a suitable photo of the bore. I just remembered I have a borescope back in WA. I will have to use that to take a photo of the bore.

I have a M1906 I bought 25 years ago for $200. It did not cost $1000 because the octagon barrel had been replaced with a round barrel. It shot nice, so I threaded it for a silencer and love to shoot it now.

Over the years I liked to buy firearms that had problems.

One could buy them cheap.

I have had several with ugly bores.

It takes work and time.

But with most they would come out very useable.

One quart of 25% comm. amonia, add a cup of Hydrogen Peroxide, toss in copper penny or copper bullet..The old benchresters called it Blue Goop, use outside. swab barrel and let it work for up to 30 minutes, no longer the swab dry, repeat as necessary, when done oil the bore throughly,,

Ive used this extensively over the years on old Winchesters and old English double rifles, also works on cordite. This stuff is as strong as it gets...

Whatever you use, if its as you describe don't approach cleaning with unreasonable expectations! Shoot the gun and it will tell you if the stuff you used worked..If Blue Goop doesnt work, the best cleaner is a rebore or new barrel.

In theory, the steel wool process skims over the lands and grooves to remove fouling. Whereas, pastes would seem to have more of a rounding off effect as opposed to a cutting across effect. Works for me anyway. My 60's built bench .270 Mauser 98 went from 2.5" or so to under one inch. The blue foam helped remove some copper to start but groups tightened up quickly after the steel wool process.
Keep us posted.

0000 steel wool does work pretty well with blue goop and other copper removers..keep in mind that in some cases your cleaning pits that fill quickly with shooting..In the worse cases I suggest a rebore and be done with it!

Ray, A re-line is out of the question according to the OP.

If you are sure the sights are tight, get 'er down to bare metal and see if you still have lands there. If so, just shoot it until any defects are filled.

I'm going to post a photo of the bore when I get my hands on the borescope I left in WA. That will be in several months.

Time for a new barrel.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/720930

As my old buddy Mick said, " You can't always get what you want, but you might get what you need."

Excellent price. I wonder who makes these barrels and if they are of decent quality.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
Time for a new barrel.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/720930

I made no mention of a reline Custombolt, I did suggest considering a re-bore to a size larger caliber in some cases that would be a possibility, depending on its collectability.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I made no mention of a reline Custombolt, I did suggest considering a re-bore to a size larger caliber in some cases that would be a possibility, depending on its collectability.

Rebore a 22RF? To what?

Ah ... imagine that. I am guilty of skimming or more likely ol'guy-itis. Thanks for the correction.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I made no mention of a reline Custombolt, I did suggest considering a re-bore to a size larger caliber in some cases that would be a possibility, depending on its collectability.

According to Numrich the barrels are made by Winchester.

Whoops, that should be gunpartscorp, not Numrich

Did you mean 22WR?
I think the more powerful 22WR shoots the same diameter bullet as the 22 S,l, and LR. That caliber was available for this model. Next up is a 22 mag which is longer than the 22RF by.2 OR so and shoots a .224 bullet vs a .2285 suggesting a .224 cleanup reamer might be enough to clean up and defoul the barrel. But then other adjustments will be needed if the action can handle the longer length and the max energy of 320 (22 mag) vs 210 (22WR).
Mr. Atkinson?

CB

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I made no mention of a reline Custombolt, I did suggest considering a re-bore to a size larger caliber in some cases that would be a possibility, depending on its collectability.

Rebore a 22RF? To what?

quote:

Originally posted by rikkochet:
Whoops, that should be gunpartscorp, not Numrich

They are the same outfit.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Excellent price. I wonder who makes these barrels and if they are of decent quality.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:
Time for a new barrel.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/720930

Dont know, but its bound to be an improvement on rusted rot.

westrnhuntr ---- Of course. If it fits perfectly that's huge win except for the patina difference of the new vs old. There is a chance the rust that appeared according to the OP could be caused by the electronic stripping which COULD have only rusted the bare exposed - unclogged metal. I "suspect" that only the magnetic portion of the barrel was affected by the electrolosis (proper term?). There is no telling how many times this gun was shot and how little it was cleaned if ever.

Light bulb idea: Have a qualified gunsmith run a .223 or even .224 finish reamer (assuming there is such a thing) through the barrel and see what's under there.

ranb ------

Sure is an interesting post. Hopefully in time we'll all get to see the bare bore. If not and your friend decides to replace the barrel, see if he will sell the cruddy one to me so I can play with it.

Good luck. Never give up.
CB

I missed out on the 1890 date! My apologies but the use of blue goop was the guts of my post!

Could one rebore to a 5mm Remington, I love mine but one on a 1890 22LR, 22 WRF or 22 Magnum would be cute if feasible and that I don't know..

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I promise, when a bore is this bad, it does no harm to employ an abrasive. In fact, often this is the only way to smooth out a bore like this so it has a chance of shooting. It will never be a good barrel but it can be a usable barrel.
In the end, I agree with Bobster, a liner is a certain fix. Regards, Bill.

I have a really nice model 1890 Winchester built in 1927. The wood is exceptional, but the bore is rough. I finally got all the darkness out of the bore and it's still rough. How much would it devalue the rifle to have the bore relined~?????