I posted at another forum, and it was suggested that this forum would be helpful also. My son is looking at going to either Pennsylvania Gunsmith School or Colorado School of Trades Gunsmithing School after he graduates from High School. He is a bit of a home body, but is willing to go to the best school regardless of the distance. We live in upstate NY, so PA is about 5 hours from home, while CO is across the country. He has always been interested in this, so I want to support him, but can he make a living at it and where? Since he will be taking on student loans to get through this program, which school is better? At this point due to the responses I received in the last post, I also need to add the questions, what is the best school for gunsmithing, and is school the best route?

quote:

willing to go to the best school regardless of the distance.

IMO that is the school in Trinidad Colorado.....a state junior college.....

Personally, I'd strongly suggest a career and training for the Tool and Die industry. One can learn a lot of gunsmithing skills in that way as well.

Only the very best will truly make a decent living at gunsmithing.

I think Vapodog has the correct notion. If there is a good local school where he can learn the fundementals of tool and die making and, perhaps work in a machine shop, then go to Trinidad he would be ahead of the curve. Having strong math skills are also important. The world always needs top machinists.

Strongly second Vapodogs's suggestion and can tell you that in Huntington, WV, Marshall Univ. campus, there is a machine center school there known as Robert C. Byrd Tech.Center(everything in WV is named after the Senator!) and they offer very quality training for those wanting to learn the skills/trade of a machinist. All manner of conventional equipment to the high tech units. You might want to check them out for they have a good reputation for such training. Did some work there myself, contract work, and the management tells me the problem they have is that young folks, not all, but most, aren't willing to go through the training and learn the basics in order to enter into the machinists line of work. Believe the course is two years long plus, but they offer all sorts of programs and sure they would explain all of it if you inquired. Good luck w/helping your son's career ambitions, I know it is not an easy thing to do.

martin

The new 3rd year Program at Trinidad is going to set the new standard in training for this field. Am up here right now and the new building and equipment are awesome. There will be a retail area (no guns being sold) as well as customers can bring in firearms or bring in pars for a custom build.

Great resource for people over the pass shooting in Raton.

There will be a lot more on this in the upcoming months!

Ditto on the machinist trade, he'll have a LOT better chance of making a decent living as an entry-level machinist rather than an entry-level smith.

Re the 'best' school, I'm a Trinidad grad so am prejudiced to some degree so I'll not make a recommendation except to say that, in the real world of trying to find a real job, that seemingly unimportant DEGREE (2-yr Associate's from TSJC) meant a lot. Even though I later went on to a university, in the interim I found it lots easier to get a job when I could show the A.A.S. degree.

Also re the 'best' school, the actual course curriculum is relatively unimportant IMO. What IS MOST important IMO is A)the attitude of the student toward learning all the more-complicated procedures and precautions, and B)the actual knowledge & experience of the instructors. Since you have no way of evaluating the answer to B beforehand, I suggest your son concentrate on A, his own attitude.

When I went to Trinidad in the '60s I was basically killing time until I was drafted, I partied a lot and generally wasted my spare time except for a necessary part-time job. Consequently I missed a golden opportunity for learning, not only from my classroom/shop studies but also after class. One of my instructors was willing to teach some of us barrelmaking in his home shop after hours but I didn't take advantage of it. Some of the other students were head-&-shoulders better than the rest of us (Pete Grisel for one) and I could have learned lots from them if I'd paid more attention. Night shop classes were available and I took one but coulda/shoulda taken lots more.

You get the point, it's a truly golden opportunity that won't be repeated and should be maximized by every means available. To this very day I kick myself for not using that time more wisely.
Regards, Joe

My 2 cents worth ! I graduated from Pittsburgh Gun School with all A's and 3 B's as said above attitude is the answer ! I was 36 at that time , My deploma got me into machine shops for the apprentice programs , in 84 I received my machinist papers and fro that time I made a good living in that trade , as for gunsmithing I would have starved to death ! I have repaired guns that were beyond repair and given up to be wall hangers by other smiths , and the people who owned them though I was a thief for the price I charged them ! and believe me it was only half of what anyone else would have charged if they could have done the work !
Find another skill electrician ,carpenter , Machinist skills are in Europe , China ,anywhere but America ! I worked for several co's that are gone now Germany took the last one ! and I retired !

Encourage him to learn a trade that is more marketable than gunsmithing. Unless he's independently wealthy building a life on just gunsmithing is extremely difficult. He needs to take business courses as well to gain an understanding that the purpose of a business is to make a profit and how to structure an operation to do that.

I recently mentored a young man who'd just graduated from the gunsmithing program at the Colorado School of Trades. A Marine veteran, he took a job at a local gunshop which had a shop but no gunsmith. He visited my shop a couple days after he started there, and in our first conversation he told me he expected to make $900 to $1300 a week in that job; I was skeptical.

Well, first, he didn't have any practical experience so was in my shop four or five times a week for me to show him how to do things, and he never cleared more than $400 a week until he left to take a real job. Remarkably, he told me he'd never even disassembled a 1911 in school. At least 70% of my pistol business is on 1911 pistols, and how a "gunsmithing" school could graduate someone without even showing them how to disassemble one is amazing to me.

Until you have experience and a real trade, gunsmithing should be an avocation not a vocation.

My experience for what it is worth. Did some college right out of high school. Dropped out and worked for a while then went to Colorado School of Trades. Fell in love with the machining part of the trade. Stock work was OK. Had the opportunity to learn from D'Arcy Echols while I was there and got lots of coaching from him in building my 35 Whelen. Finished the program and returned to Oregon. Economy wasn't good couldn't find a gunsmithing job so worked retail and went to a community college in their machine technology program as I really enjoyed that kind of work. Won't bore you with the long story but now work as a HR manager in a high tech company (I am not your typical HR person).

I did a lot of gunsmithing work on the side for several years, even getting a FFL. Didn't make a lot of money but it paid for all my reloading supplies, tools and the parts I needed for my gun upgrades. I don't do the gunsmithing work any more as the hassles of the FFL aren't worth it for me. However I do lots and lots of gun work on my stuff and for my sons. Find it is great stress release from work as I don't have to deal with people and I get to visually see what I worked on.

My recommendation matches those comments above, learn the machinist trade first and then attend a gunsmithing school. Don't have a recommendation for a school. It has been 27 years since I was at CST and I don't know what their program is like now. I would suggest a program that is not designed to get students in and out quickly, but one that lets them focus on areas of specific interests to them.

Likely your son will have better success finding a job as a machinist first and do gunsmithing on the side. If he does good work as a gunsmith, his reputation will grow and it is possible he can move into the gunsmithing trade full time. If he is going to start his own business, he should also take some classes focusing how to run a small business. I think more people fail as a full time gunsmith due to lack of business skills rather than lack of gunsmithing skills.

I would venture to say his long term earning potential will be better as a full time machinist and part time gunsmith as compared to working just as a gunsmith, especially when you consider benefits. Also, with a steady job he can more quickly develop a solid financial foundation for himself and family.

Hope this helps and I wish him the best of luck in his future.

I have been in the machinest bussiness for over 25 years. And it is not easy! 60 to 70 hours a week to earn a living. Nobody will come out of gunsmithing school and make it big without putting in years. BUT as most smiths will tell you they started part time then built it up to full time. My son also aked me about gunsmithing school and I told him DO IT. He should chase what he likes, and we all love our guns. It won't hurt! And any machine shop will hire him if he graduates

Your son NEEDS to learn to be a first class machinist first. After fifteen to twenty years, then he mught have a chance at being a good full time gunsmith.

"I" would not let a 20 year old do any "gunsmithing" for me. As the above post state, there is a lot to learn and to know. He needs to prove that he has what it takes to do a job right the first time.


Small, part time repairs/parts changing can be a start. Learning to do different jobs on the side, will keep him interested.

I wish him good luck on living his dream.

Keith

Another thought, go to the local gun shows and buy parts guns or other cheap guns to practice on them. That way he may learn something and no pissed off customers if he gets it wrong.

Just a thought.

Keith

quote:

He should chase what he likes,

Some would say to follow one's dreams.....and I, for one, would cheer him on.....but to use a bit of caution as dreams and nightmares are found in the very same place.

J.D.Steele posted ;

Ditto on the machinist trade, he'll have a LOT better chance of making a decent living as an entry-level machinist rather than an entry-level smith.

As this is the 21 St. century I agree with the above statement . Learn Tool an Die machining trade FIRST !.

Then as money an career develops ,start purchasing necessary tools indicative to the trade .

When opportunity arises take on small side jobs . Let your diligent reputation be your working badge !.

As the saying goes ; One never gets a second chance to make a first impression .

So making an OUTSTANDING ONE IS PARAMOUNT !. If he's of the skill and mind set he will

do well as a Gunsmith by remembering that path . IMO . ...

quote:

Originally posted by proplinker:
I have been in the machinest bussiness for over 25 years. And it is not easy! 60 to 70 hours a week to earn a living. Nobody will come out of gunsmithing school and make it big without putting in years. BUT as most smiths will tell you they started part time then built it up to full time. My son also aked me about gunsmithing school and I told him DO IT. He should chase what he likes, and we all love our guns. It won't hurt! And any machine shop will hire him if he graduates

old joke ..
what's the difference in a bucket of KFC chicken and a full time gunsmith?

the KFC bucket will feed a family of 5 every day of the week ...

Only the BEST make a good living at gunsmithing .. the rest can make a decent living, and ONLY IF THEY HAVE BUSINESS SKILLS should they ever think of hangout their own shingle

If he want to be a full time gunsmith, as a job, make him take 2 years and get an associates degree in biz or biz accounting, before he makes the FIRST chip.


Ask him a simple question .. this is a VERY VERY VERY basic business question

If someone wants to have him build a rifle. Hands him the parts and the total fee for the gun, call it $20,000 just to make it interesting.. and says he can have it done in 6 months

What's he got on his ledger?

If he can't answer BOTH correct answers, he needs to be in business school, no matter how talented ...

quote:

in Huntington, WV, Marshall Univ. campus, there is a machine center school there known as Robert C. Byrd Tech.Center(everything in WV is named after the Senator!) and they offer very quality training for those wanting to learn the skills/trade of a machinist. All manner of conventional equipment to the high tech units. You might want to check them out for they have a good reputation for such training.

I have toured the Machinst training center and it is an excellent program. I repeat myself, but learn the tool and die skills first.

Study hard and party little, you will do well.

Jajaswani I have sent your son a PM

Speaking as a tool and die maker myself. The kid is far an wide better off in the Machinistist industry tool and die make specialty.
When I was about twenty five I had about eight years experience as a machinist and was apprenticing as a tool maker when I walked in a local gun shop with a somewhat national reputation. I asked the young gunsmith in there what I could expect to get as a entry level smith.
he said nine bucks an hour when he started a few years prior when the minimum wage in california was $4.25 an hour. He was also a graduate of the Colorado school of trades. So all things being equal look at about double the minimum wage.
Now an entry level machinist can get about the same to start but can advance in pay much faster.

I'll probably tick a few smith here on the board off by saying this and please keep in mind this is a broad generalization But Gunsmithing is not all that hard once you've been a tool make for a while. Now does that mean I can compete with the best??? No And I will never claim to be better then the artists that frequent this board. But when we are talking about an average shop that does average work load without a specialty product or a fine custom look. A good tool maker can machine circles around them.

Get an education in the machine industry take some business classes then add some engineering classes and in some time you'll have a hell of a gunsmith.

of all the advice, i think kcstott hit it on the head when he said gunsmithing is not all the hard when you have education/experience in tool and die or machine process.
i had a similar experience with this in my trade.
i was talking to a fellow carpenter that built houses and the subject of what we knew, individually, both being carpenters, me having gone through an apprenticeship and he learning on the job as a home builder. the discussion stemed from his saying that i was "way-way overpaid" as a carpenter and he knew as much as i did and could do anything i could.
i simply walked over to my truck and pulled out a set of prints that was about 2-1/2 inches thick asked him to find a few dimensions and details........argument over!.
go to school and learn the higher level of what you want to do and be in better shape from the start.
i mean no be-littlement to any of the gunsmiths here on this board. only that to be successful in today's economy, one needs to know allot more than what thier jobs require

Here! Here! Merlinron

I point to my friend Glenn Fewless, a retired toolmaker and recent ACGG member whose metalwork has now become a single-shot rifle smithing byword and benchmark for others. IMO toolmaking is perhaps the least-recognized of all the 'genius' professions but is also one of the most-rewarding in personal satisfaction and peer appreciation/admiration.
Regards, Joe

The creme de la creme of the machinist field is tool and die making and mold makers. I'd rank them tied for first place with the skill level required to be successful in the profession. There is no broader skill range needed at such high level of precision, as a die maker or a mold maker.
When you've worked with +/- .0002" day in day out for over a decade, working to +/-.005" is a breeze.
The true ability comes when you can take any mechanism apart and understand how it works and know it's weakness and it's strengths that's the key to being a good tool maker and a good smith.

I taught machine tools in college. Spent 35 years as an engineer, invested in land and stocks and now have enough money to be a gunsmith. It is very difficult to charge what the job is worth. Most of the time it is more than the value of the gun. Get the education and use gunsmithing as a sideline.....JMHO....Tom

I have been watching this thread with great interest and would just love to know Darcy's comments. Here is my take as someone who actually does make his living gunsmithing. It is a vast field and to succeed one needs to specialize. I personally work on almost nothing but double barrels with some single shot rifles thrown in. The vast majority of my classmates at TSJC(I agree with Joe, it is the best school out there) did not end up working in the field. It is a tough route, but I must wonder as to all the tool and die advise you received. Around here machine shops are closing daily....there is very little work in that field being offered in Colorado today, as to other areas I do not know. While machine work certainly plays a big part in being a professional gunsmith, there is much much more to the field that you will never learn in a machining facility, like how to use some of the more traditional tools, IE, a file or proper finishing techniques. I know quite a few very high end tool makers and they have an amazing skill set, much of which is more than is what is required to be a good gunsmith, but they lack an understanding of how guns work and often over engineer every set up on a machine. The same guys who can machine anything look at you like you are crazy when you hand forge a spring and file it to shape. They want to build a machine to make a hundred springs and seem to lack an understanding that the vast majority of what we do is a one off operation often performed with hand tools. To really understand and excel in the gunsmithing field I would suggest he look strongly at TSJC. Being a Gunsmith is no easy way to make a living, but if he has a passion for it and has the talent....go for it.

I agree with SKB that the machining trades are going down hill very quickly. I am in the mechanical trades for 30yrs and have seen the steady downward trend which is caused by the disappearance of our factories. As the factories that make goods close up, mechanical and machine trade jobs are lost. as are the production based jobs. Combine that with the factories that are surviving, they have switched over to mostly CNC machines which don't require as much a machinist skill so that factory don't need 8 machinists anymore...just one machinist for set-up and 8 machine OPERATORS at far less pay. In most locales, expect 18-22.00 per hour as a top machinist with perhaps a few bucks more if your a union machinist, which are really getting rare today however. The same can be said for most other mechanical trades........America killed a whole industry of tradesmen when it resorted to purchasing goods for less cost made somewhere else....with usually less quality as well. This country is beginning to pay for this as we are struggling thru this recession with less and less good paying jobs around. Anyways, I agree that your son should be a tool maker first and move to an area where he can earn a good wage (there are fewer left) and then take on side jobs in smithing. I wish your son well in his pursuit for happiness.

I would disagree with the last two posts in one area.
For one Tool making is not a dying trade. Being a production machinist is though.

Two Tool making is not a production job. It is more of a contract shop or a job shop. and yes the weaker shops have gone away but there is still a demand for work. The thing is a good machinist will never be unemployed as long as he adapts.

I've got a job interview next week with a mold shop in a large Injection mold company.
Locations may have a lot to do with it as industries die in certain areas but the days of getting a job in a factory and being set for life are over and they have been over for a long time people have just failed to realize it.

Once out of trade school he should expect to jump from job to job for the first fifteen years. spending about three to five years at each place. until he finds the perfect shop to work for.

CNC machines have just about killed the entry level machinist jobs. as stated above why pay a machinist when all I need is an operator.
But that also open up jobs in the CAD/CAM fields and programming. Engineering is actually where the money is But he will be far and wide better off as a machinist tool maker that became an engineer.
And you must have an interest in guns. as stated in an above post a machinist will look at you a little weird when you try to do something to a gun. The interest in guns will be the key. It takes years of playing with guns to understand the ins and outs of them. Getting exposed to as many as possible. But here again a good tool maker knows what is required in a job and it is not easy to find people with the ability to be able to adapt there skill to the job or to make a part (excuse the term) "good enough"
Most parts on a rifle don't need to be made to ultra high tolerances. and being able to understand the level of precision required is a big skill. Why Grind it when milling it is fine. Or why use a mill when a drill press will work. It efficiency of motion that needs to be taught. And it is in a Journeyman apprentice toolmakers trade school where this is taught. It is where I learned that the faster you can make the part the more money you can make. and why make a part to +/-.0001 when +/-.010 will work just fine. You have to understand what the parts do. This is why I suggested engineering classes. That is a huge feather in ones cap.

Anyway though I don't feel it's a dying trade I was told that when I went to trade school and they where preping for the CNC wave to hit well It's been my Manual skill that have kept me employed not my CNC skills.
How many of you where told America was converting to the metric system??? And we still have yet to even start.
I think it's the same with the machinist. his trade will never die he will just adapt to a changing world.

quote:

Originally posted by Tapper2:
I taught machine tools in college. Spent 35 years as an engineer, invested in land and stocks and now have enough money to be a gunsmith.

That's the most honest and succinct summation I believe I've ever seen! AAMOF it kinda mirrors my own experience. My current REAL hourly rate for smithing is about 1/3 of what I was making when I retired from the nukie.
Regards, Joe

I have been a machinist/mold maker for the last 25 years. The trade is FASTLY drying up. I have seen it change from the 50/70 hr. weeks of non-stop work to fighting CHINA for a 40 hr. week.

Send him in the direction of the health industry. Phys Therapy, Nursing, X-Ray tech, ER tech, EMT ect.

The machinist industry is still alive but mainly on the East and West coast were the shops are "sister shops" of Asian brokers.

The machinist trade hase made me a great living but I have directed my children away from the trade.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
I have been watching this thread with great interest and would just love to know Darcy's comments. Here is my take as someone who actually does make his living gunsmithing. It is a vast field and to succeed one needs to specialize. I personally work on almost nothing but double barrels with some single shot rifles thrown in. The vast majority of my classmates at TSJC(I agree with Joe, it is the best school out there) did not end up working in the field. It is a tough route, but I must wonder as to all the tool and die advise you received. Around here machine shops are closing daily....there is very little work in that field being offered in Colorado today, as to other areas I do not know. While machine work certainly plays a big part in being a professional gunsmith, there is much much more to the field that you will never learn in a machining facility, like how to use some of the more traditional tools, IE, a file or proper finishing techniques. I know quite a few very high end tool makers and they have an amazing skill set, much of which is more than is what is required to be a good gunsmith, but they lack an understanding of how guns work and often over engineer every set up on a machine. The same guys who can machine anything look at you like you are crazy when you hand forge a spring and file it to shape. They want to build a machine to make a hundred springs and seem to lack an understanding that the vast majority of what we do is a one off operation often performed with hand tools. To really understand and excel in the gunsmithing field I would suggest he look strongly at TSJC. Being a Gunsmith is no easy way to make a living, but if he has a passion for it and has the talent....go for it.

Good points! Since Speedy has been there the machining part of the curriculum has been expanded. Also the 3rd year program will focus on this quite a bit. Just got back from Trinidad last night and say the new equipment that just arrived and is being installed in the off campus (2 blocks) building. Very impressive---state of the art everything from the ventilated finishing room to the bluing room. Even have a lathe to turn brass.

Going to be reading quite a bit about this in the near term.

quote:

Originally posted by Dall85:

quote:

in Huntington, WV, Marshall Univ. campus, there is a machine center school there known as Robert C. Byrd Tech.Center(everything in WV is named after the Senator!) and they offer very quality training for those wanting to learn the skills/trade of a machinist. All manner of conventional equipment to the high tech units. You might want to check them out for they have a good reputation for such training.

I have toured the Machinst training center and it is an excellent program. I repeat myself, but learn the tool and die skills first.

Study hard and party little, you will do well.

Jim,

Just out of curiosity, but have you had any experience with any of the trade schools here in Memphis? I took a machine shop night class at William R. Moore for a little while, not for a degree but for my own enjoyment. I thought it was pretty good for learning the use of manual machines, their uses and how to set up a part properly for each step. I only went for one semester due to a change in work schedule that didn't mesh with the class schedule so I never got further than just being comfortable with the tools and knowing some of the basics. The one thing that I didn't like about the school was that there were not enough tools for everyone to work on their projects, plenty of machines, but you'd spend the first half of the class scavenging up tool holders, chucks, endmills, etc. to get started and the tools were never organized. I'm a bit of a neat freak so that got on my nerves. One other thing that I would have liked and would probably have prevented me from staying for the whole course is that there was nobody to teach CNC. They have what appears to be a brand new CNC milling machine that just sits there unused because nobody, including the instructor knows anything about using it. I was told by some of the other students that it had been there for quit a while, idle. I just found out about another school in town, Tennessee Technology Center, downtown that also has a machine tool technology degree program that I plan on looking into. The price is a little bit more reasonable and just based on the pictures on the website and the course description it seems more geared towards CNC. Matter of fact, all the machines in the picture looked like newer HAAS CNC machines. If they offer both manual and cnc I plan to enroll. Do you have any experience with either of these schools that you could elaborate on?

Bryan27

PM sent.

SIMPLE ANSWER

To be machinist go to a school teaching machine shop practises.

To be a gunsmith go to TSJC in Trinidad.

You will have lots of machine operations and instructions. Get the A.A.S. degree and take all the extra courses on business operations. Find a large gun shop and try to get hired for some hands on gunsmithing for a few years before you start your own shop.

I would go to Colorado and get a job for the first year and then you pay resident fees. Out of State fees are very high. Check with the school. Been there and have done all of the above years ago.

I finished the school and went to work fulltime for a shop that had general sporting goods with a gunsmith shop. It paid well from the start and I could feed my family. They also paid health insurance for my family as well as for myself. My young son had a month in the hospital and it was covered!!

I found a shop in FT Worth that started in 1935 looking for a gunsmith. We had three gunsmiths working fulltime and I was hired as the first outside of family to work there. After a couple of days the stockmaker came over to my bench with a custom stock and said "here kid checker this stock". I was able to please him with my checkering. That was all it took to prove that I could do the work for them. This was 1964 and 2 months ago a person contacted me about some guns with my name on the inside of that stock. It was my first stock checkering at Knight's Gun Store.

I always had more work than I could do from the time I finished school. Never tried to join the guild. You can make a good living in gunsmithing if you try to learn all things about guns. I look back and I was making pay equal to a top machinist in 1988 when I quit. This was $30,000 per year plus medical insurance, life insurance, special cancer insurance, and a paid vacation.

I went back to TSJC and taught for a couple of years after I retired. Most students that come to gunsmith school is about 28 years old. Very few students just out of high school were ready to study. Only about 5 % of the students have the ability to become stockmakers. Most can learn how to run the machines, but don't have the artistic touch for stocks. Try to learn stockmaking and see if you can make the grade for a professional stockmaker.

You must be able to own guns. That means a clean record with the police and be able to pass the 4473 govt. form. Must be 21 to have hand guns in schools. You can not work for a gun shop if you fail the above test.

Later I worked for another shop which had 4 fulltime gunsmiths. I was the senior gunsmith and had a helping hand in hiring people to work. If the person didn't have an A.A.S. degree in gunsmithing they were not hired. We didn't have time to train people. We never hired a person with a Machinist degree.

I have tried to help several young gunsmiths. I made up CD's on making your own stock duplicator, stockmaking, checkering, and engraving. If you need some of this info let me know by PM. I am using the SanDisk USB drives now and have found that this is the best way to pass this info on to the trade. Almost 2 Gb's and haven't had a problem yet.

Duane Wiebe and any others who are making fine custom gun stocks should be taking lots of digital photo's for future use. Document each job with pictures. One day you may be UNABLE to do this work. I have lost my ability to see well enough to do checkering now. Both retina's have split and been repaired, but the sight is not the same.

My timer is almost down to zero,
Les Brooks

Also let me add one tid-bit....don't forget after you get your tech deg. our shop has a 4 year apprentice program to compleate.
After the 4 years it goes as follows and it is up to ind. performance. There is far more training in the real world shop than school so the apprentice program packs tons of training into a newbie every single week.

machinist 1
machinist 2
moldmaker 1
moldmaker 2
jounyman 1
leadman

it is a long journy to a great paycheck but if it is a passion go for it hard.

PS.....I almost forgot, personal tools. That just takes time and a company tool bill.

I'm not at all sure how this comp. to smithing though.

.

I realize that many formerly-numerous machining jobs in the industrial areas are drying up. However, consider the following:

computer manufacturing
auto engine work
aircraft engine work
commercial power plants
medical equipment manufacturing
DoD work for a salary (i.e.Lawrence Radiation Lab)
DoD work as a jobshop (i.e.Boots Obermeyer)
machining jobshop work for a salary
..and many more I haven't thought of

OTOH to make it as a gunsmith, a new graduate's options are very limited: either open his own shop or else find someone who wants to hire a smith in these poor economic times. Since most gunsmiths are small shops, I figure that very, very few are hiring right now. I also figure that if a graduate has to pay back loans, then he probably doesn't have enough capital to be successful in his own shop. Remember it takes up to 2-3 years to make a new business profitable; who's gonna pay the bills and the loan note 'til then?

When the time comes, I suggest that your son try to find a smith who's retiring and buy his business, rather than trying to start up from scratch. Either that or else start out doing the smithing part-time at night and on weekends until the volume of benchwork absolutely DEMANDS that he go full-time.
Regards, Joe

For those that are reading this and dont realize a difference.....

Colorado School of Trades
and
Trinidad State Junior College

Are 2 different gunsmithing schools here in Colorado

I work at the local gun shop in town and our gun smith graduated from the school in denver co. hes been in the business for over 30 years. He said if he trys hard and graduates at the top of his class... the job part will be easy. most schools help graduates get jobs, some in local shops and some with bigger companys. you can make a decent living gun smithing, just depends on your type of living.