http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=43164519
Is it worth 8 grand!

$800, tops.

$8k????

I call

I'm with HP Shooter.

When I saw I couldn't believe it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
$8k????

I call

I'm with HP Shooter.

The dude's smokin' crack.

This gun was on Gunbroker about 6 years ago and it sold for $600 and change... I almost bought it but my limit was $600 and it went over. (Maybe it was a different one but even the picture layout looks similar)

IV

I was offered a almost brand new win super grade in 270 for 300.I was told it was a 7mmremmag over the phone.I checked it out bore and all and couldn't tell it apart from a new one.I almost bought it,but I was looking for a magnum action.Don't like to buy things for the hell of it.

If you turned this gun down for $600 you are either an idiot or have no clue when it comes to M70's! $8,000 seems quite high but original 358's go for $2000 all the time and Super Grade Featherwieghts are the rarest variation on the M70's. They were only cataloged in .243, .308, .270, and .30-06. The standard Featherwieght was also made in .264 and .358. To find an original SG FW in one of these two calibers would be EXTREMELY rare! Even more so in 358 since they made less than 2000 of them total in this caliber and then recalled all of them. It's rather common to see M70's of this rarity advertised for $5k to $7,500 although I don't know how many of them actually sell.

Also this is not an easy gun to fake since you would need to find a SG FW stock since a normal SG would have the boss cut out in the barrel channel.

This rifle has had the guts buffed out of it. I don't know what that does to the collector value, but it's got to hurt it a bunch.

quote:

Originally posted by Scrollcutter:
This rifle has had the guts buffed out of it. I don't know what that does to the collector value, but it's got to hurt it a bunch.

Roger,

Would you mind when you have the time to give us a short primer on what the tell tale signs of a buffed gun are?

I can tell an obvious job but some hints from the pros couldn't hurt, what do you look for?


Thanks, Rob

A once in a life time oppurtunity it says.

Yep, a once in a lifetime oppurtunity to throw away $8000.

Anyone smart enough to think this is a good deal has one of two things going on:

More money than God, and an absolute complete lack of common sense.

Or, they are going to use this piece of shit in a Museum.

This guy is trying to get over on the public.

Don't stand for it.

A factory M70 is worth $2000 tops. Why any of your people would pay $6000 for a pre-64 when you could have a new Dakota built how you want it for the same money is beyond me.

quote:

Originally posted by D99: Why any of your people would pay $6000 for a pre-64 when you could have a new Dakota built how you want it for the same money is beyond me.

+1

I WOULDN"T-COULDN"T pay that much for it but that doesn't change the fact that it's a damn nice rifle-it makes me wonder how anyone could call it a piece of shit-but then again i have no desire to shoot a babbon either.

A pre 64 is a pre 64 is a pre 64. The caliber is lame, the stock is ugly. I've parted out better pre 64s' for their actions.
Timan

Recoil Rob

All the normal signs of buffing are there. Normally, what you look at are the numbers and screw holes. If they are dished out or blurred, it has been buffed. Look at the serial number on this rifle. Another indication is a change in the sheen. Does it fit with the other guns of that era. Don't get me wrong, if the metal polisher knows what he is doing you won't see these tell tale signs. Then it comes down to knowledge of a particular gun.

In this case, Winchester, changed the polishing sequence in the late 40's early '50's on all of their guns. Prior to the change they rolled the logo and caliber stamping into the barrel with a fairly heavy force, then polished the barrel. That left no raised burr from the stamping around the lettering. After that, they polished, then rolled the lettering in. Leaving the raised burr around the lettering. They also backed of the air pressure on the roll die machine as the lettering no longer needed to stamped in as deeply.

To put it in perspective. In order to spot the rifles that have been redone by a pro, one needs to have some experience looking at factory rifles with some attention given to the polishing detail of the era. Both wood and metal finishes. But, this one is a no brainer. You could see this one has been redone from across the street. There wasn't any thought given to redoing these guns back in the day. They were working tools and many people would take their guns in for a bit of touch up every so often just to spruce them up a bit...oops!

I wish the scanned pictures of my rifle looked that good. I'd have posted them...

Thank you very much for the explanation Roger, it's going in my file.

Regards,
Rob Di Stasio

Why would anybody pay $6000 for a M70 when they could get a Dakota built for the same money? Because you can buy a Dakota anyday of the week but try finding a nice old M70 in an unusual caliber and configuration!

I guess using the same logic why would anybody pay $6000 for a old Winchester lever action or a 1st. generation Colt SAA when you could buy a new M94 for $300 or a Runer single action for $300? Why would you spend $6000 on a Dakota when you could drop $300 and get a Savage that does the same thing?

Collectors and pre 64 WInchesters

One of my absolute pet peaves in life over the last few years...drag out a ragged old model 70 call it collectable and put a rip off price on it. Not worth that, I give a tad more than $800 but not signifcantly.......pure rip. They are working guns with functional value, nothing more, nothing less. Model 70 collectors are toads in my opinion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So do you say the same thing for anything that people collect?

Watchout Reelman is fishing!

I personally love the old mod-70s but have to agree that some people think they are worth WAY to much. I saw a pre-64 358 featherweight barrell on e-bay in decent shape-this was last week and it was at 861-it had 14 bids and there was 14hrs left so it probably went for over 900-it will probably turn a so-so 243 into a RARE 358 so i guess its BUYER BEWARE.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Collectors and pre 64 WInchesters

One of my absolute pet peaves in life over the last few years...drag out a ragged old model 70 call it collectable and put a rip off price on it. Not worth that, I give a tad more than $800 but not signifcantly.......pure rip. They are working guns with functional value, nothing more, nothing less. Model 70 collectors are toads in my opinion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should see M1 collectors. What a bunch of freaks.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Watchout Reelman is fishing trolling!

Fixed it for you..........

quote:

Originally posted by D99:

Why any of your people would pay $6000 for a pre-64 when you could have a new Dakota built how you want it for the same money is beyond me.

Or even better - an Echols Legend!

quote:

Originally posted by Scrollcutter:
Recoil Rob

All the normal signs of buffing are there. Normally, what you look at are the numbers and screw holes. If they are dished out or blurred, it has been buffed. Look at the serial number on this rifle. Another indication is a change in the sheen. Does it fit with the other guns of that era. Don't get me wrong, if the metal polisher knows what he is doing you won't see these tell tale signs. Then it comes down to knowledge of a particular gun.

In this case, Winchester, changed the polishing sequence in the late 40's early '50's on all of their guns. Prior to the change they rolled the logo and caliber stamping into the barrel with a fairly heavy force, then polished the barrel. That left no raised burr from the stamping around the lettering. After that, they polished, then rolled the lettering in. Leaving the raised burr around the lettering. They also backed of the air pressure on the roll die machine as the lettering no longer needed to stamped in as deeply.

To put it in perspective. In order to spot the rifles that have been redone by a pro, one needs to have some experience looking at factory rifles with some attention given to the polishing detail of the era. Both wood and metal finishes. But, this one is a no brainer. You could see this one has been redone from across the street. There wasn't any thought given to redoing these guns back in the day. They were working tools and many people would take their guns in for a bit of touch up every so often just to spruce them up a bit...oops!

Thank You Roger. Very informative!

Why am I trolling? Different things are worth different amounts of money to different people. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Right now M70's are a popular item for collectors hence they are worth considerable amounts of money. If you don't agree with that do this for me. THe next time you find a nice M70 that is going for a couple thousand $ for sale for a couple hundred $ buy it and sell it to me for the same amount you payed for it. My bet is that you will try t sell it for what the going price is for that item and make some money on it.

1200-1500.. sure, it's "pre-production".. and it's 358 ... but it's been worked.

I passed on a "pristine" 56, with hang tags on it... and i KNEW the guy that bought it new, about 10 years ago..

should have bought it.


jeffe

THe stock and bottom metal are worth $2000+ alone on this gun!

I can think of about fifty other BETTER things to spend $8000.00 bucks on!!! and i would not spend one cent of it going to see some pathetic gay cowboy movie which should have been called ''Broke arse mountin "

You guys need to give this bargain a chance. It comes with the quality screwdriver through the trigger guard too!

Kyler

quote:

Originally posted by boucanier:
I can think of about fifty other BETTER things to spend $8000.00 bucks on!!! and i would not spend one cent of it going to see some pathetic gay cowboy movie which should have been called ''Broke arse Fudgepack mountin "

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Collectors and pre 64 WInchesters

One of my absolute pet peaves in life over the last few years...drag out a ragged old model 70 call it collectable and put a rip off price on it. Not worth that, I give a tad more than $800 but not signifcantly.......pure rip. They are working guns with functional value, nothing more, nothing less. Model 70 collectors are toads in my opinion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is quite a negative post.

I happen to be a Pre 64 M70 collector and I am proud of the rifles that I have. I use most of them and have a few safe queens. I think they are among the best guns of any era.

There was also some rude comments about Reelman that were out of line.

As to the topic rifle it's way over priced and somewhat suspicious in it's creation. This state of CT is full of what we call lunch box M70 and a 358 sold here for $850 that may have been one.

Scrollcutter is right that the gun has been buffed and the text in the description is suspicious as well.

Moreover I don't like the look of the rifle. Something is wrong with it and I can't put my finger on it. I will stop into a gunshop here in CT this week with a picture and the url of this gun and get some inside info from our resident expert.

Here is a photo of what I feel is an original pre 64 M70 358 Win Featherweight.

If a guy loves M70s then collect them.

I like old and new German guns. I have quite a few but I don't see it as a collection. Nor do I think of myself as a collector.

I will never understand why a 99% M70 made in 1963 or before is priced at $3500.

338 M70 at Kesselrings for $2895

Ok, and here's 3 times the gun for another $1000.

Maurice Ottmar 358 Norma $3950

I like my 1953 ,308 m70 featherwieght completely original , I got for $200 at a gun shop in the bargin rack . Ok ill shut up!

Today used rifles sell for nothing.I would't give more than 80 dollars for that rifle.That is if it still shoots.I was at a shop the other day,and in walks this construction jobber with a shotgun that he just inherited.I take a glance over as he asks how much he can get for it.It looks pretty good with four or five extra chokes a nice case and extra barrel.I think it was a semi auto.Owner says 200 dollars.Guy says no way,it is worth 1200.Owner says I am sorry to insult your intelligence but that is all I can give.Guy walks out.

80 dollars-you don't have a clue.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
I will never understand why a 99% M70 made in 1963 or before is priced at $3500.

338 M70 at Kesselrings for $2895

Ok, and here's 3 times the gun for another $1000.

Maurice Ottmar 358 Norma $3950

Dude, you are sooooo right. That NIB M70 has wood that belongs on a telephone pole or railroad tie.

quote:

Originally posted by 300 H-H:
80 dollars-you don't have a clue.

+1

quote:

I use most of them

Savage99,

That in itself takes you out of the 'collector' category. I own pre 64 model 70's also. And I am fully aware of the value, of some of them. A decent Alakan, or a factory 375 H&H are pricey. And I figure any decent action alone is worth close to $500, and it seems that finding one for much under the action value is unknown. But pre 64 model 70's get just stupid prices on them as of late. I looked at one about 8 months ago, serial number put it at a 1960 gun, stock had been changed to some kind of a abortion that fit terribly. Factory 270, nothing rare in chambering or year, the guy was ashing $1200 for. My first thought when I saw the stock was firewood, but the action was straight. THe rifle was worth %550-600 absolute tops, not a dime more, and I told the dealer its marked at twice what is worth ( he didn't think I was funny ).

It not just one guy either I bet 60-70 percent of the model 70's I see are marked up stupid like that. I have a gun blue book and a these are getting valued consistantly high, and everyone seems to want over 100% condition price for 70% condition guns.

They are nice rifles, good solid working rifles, and there are some rare chamberings that get fancy prices I am aware ( 7x57). But the whole jandra of Model 70 has got silly. For instance is prewar rifles are the real collectable ones, yet these are the least desirable for a woorking gun do to bolt handle issues. Nowhere does anyone detract for the late 1963 or 1964 that had spotty and shoddy quality.

THey are and remain one of my favorite rifles but the price asked for these has gotten downright silly.