The Accurate Reloading Forums
Ruger 77 Poll
31 July 2010, 20:01
D HumbargerRuger 77 Poll
That angled front guard screw has always bothered me. I have also wondered how much more accurate the 77 would be with a square front screw.Would you consider buying a M77 if Ruger changed the front guard screw from that <BR>angled screw to one that is square to the receiver?YesNoThe angled front guard doesn't matter to me.
Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member
Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73.
Yankee Station
Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo.
31 July 2010, 20:06
WestpacNo.
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This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life.
31 July 2010, 20:24
D Humbargerquote:
No.
LOL. Why did I think that is what you would say!
Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member
Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73.
Yankee Station
Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo.
31 July 2010, 21:35
ted thornI have had 3 all are shooters. The front screw has never plagued me.
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31 July 2010, 23:58
Mike_DettorreWhat is it that theoretically bothers people about the angle front screw?
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
01 August 2010, 00:27
D HumbargerThat angle of the dangle.
Doug Humbarger
NRA Life member
Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73.
Yankee Station
Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo.
01 August 2010, 01:01
jeffeossothe angle screw has nothing to do with accuracy /... zip ...it IS a mechanical advantage on locking into the action ..
01 August 2010, 01:06
JBrownquote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the angle screw has nothing to do with accuracy /... zip ...it IS a mechanical advantage on locking into the action ..
How many BR actions have an angled front screw?
Why after all these years is Ruger the only one using the angled front screw?
I voted that it doesn't bother me, BTW.
Jason
"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________
Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.
Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.
-Jason Brown
01 August 2010, 03:11
BobsterI guess the idea was to pre-load the recoil lug and keep it in tight contact with the stock, thus ruling out the possibility of looseness creating accuracy problems. Compared to a properly bedded action with a 90 degree action screw I don't see any advantage. However, if the bedding was a little shy of the recoil lug, it might help in bringing it into contact. I've never heard of or seen a benchrest gun with it. Ruger keeps it likely because it doesn't hurt anything and the tooling is paid for, plus they probably believe in it. Investiture molds are expensive.
01 August 2010, 03:18
tin canI have gleaned from comments over the years that the 77 was not particularly accurate, and have not noticed a lot of (any) traffic concerning accurizing them. I always have thought that, whatever its problems, the 77's angled screw was probably not a deal
maker.
.
.
.
01 August 2010, 06:21
kcstottI can only speculate as to the reason behind the angled guard screw but believe it is the same reason mentioned above. to pull the action back and down in firm contact with the stock.
This can also be accomplished with an angled recoil lug and and angled seat. Angled forward on the front part of the lug when pulled straight down the lug and seat would push the action back.
It would require a big chunk on the recoil lug and something more substantial then wood to seat against.
either way I voted it makes no difference to me.
I'd still buy one but only the MK11 deluxe
www.KLStottlemyer.comDeport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
01 August 2010, 08:34
jeffeossoquote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the angle screw has nothing to do with accuracy /... zip ...it IS a mechanical advantage on locking into the action ..
How many BR actions have an angled front screw?
Why after all these years is Ruger the only one using the angled front screw?
I voted that it doesn't bother me, BTW.
how many CURRNT br actions are mausers and competitive? none.. how many br actions, which is a high;y specialized sport, ar full length bedded/glued in? all of them .. how many BR rifles are sold at walmarts and big five? zero
bench rest rifles have nothing to do with hunting rifles, in my opinion, ,and are a distractor
how many menchrest rifles in 5-6K ft/lbs range?
zero?
here's a ruger i did, with the angled front screw
it just moa, and just over 5K ft/lbs .. from sandbags on a cold and rainy day ...
tell me where 3 screws is an advantage? doubt there's anyway to prove it ...
some folks just don't like different
01 August 2010, 12:26
IdaredI have never found a Ruger to not be accurate enough with the angled front screw.
The reason I don't care for it is because it can be more difficult sometimes to get a nice close floorplate fit to the triggerguard. I have more than once seen shims added on the front guard screw to force the floorplate closer to the triggerguard. I realize this may be a small thing but it still bugs me.
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"We do not exaggerate when we state positively that the remodelled Springfield is the best and most suitable "all 'round" rifle".......Seymour Griffin, GRIFFIN & HOWE, Inc.
02 August 2010, 00:37
Toomany ToolsThe angled screw is one of the things that makes it a Ruger. It's design is suppose to pull the recoil lug into the stock thereby making it more accurate. Why would you want to change that?
John Farner
If you haven't, please join the NRA!
02 August 2010, 00:57
enfieldsparesI would be more concerned about the lack of a proper length barrel.
A 22" barrel on any rifle such as a 270, 280, 243 or 6mm just seems a nonsense. I'd rather have a full 24"!
02 August 2010, 02:37
Toomany ToolsI agree on barrel length for the .270 and .280, but 22 inches is plenty for a .243.
John Farner
If you haven't, please join the NRA!
02 August 2010, 09:45
nsaqamquote:
Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I would be more concerned about the lack of a proper length barrel.
A 22" barrel on any rifle such as a 270, 280, 243 or 6mm just seems a nonsense. I'd rather have a full 24"!
A man after my own heart.
I've never found the extra 2 inches to be burdensome and appreciate the velocity and steadiness benefit.
02 August 2010, 12:00
Hog Killerquote:
Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I would be more concerned about the lack of a proper Recoil pad.
They really need to get away from the pads they are using, from Goodyear.
Keith
IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!!
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No.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Don
27 August 2010, 14:42
<Mike McGuire>It makes Rugers more difficult to bed.
It would result in the action being pulled down with less force.
I can't see how it makes any difference in pulling the recoil lug back. As soon as a rifle is fired a couple of times and the front screw given a second tighten the recoil lugh will be hard up against the bedding.
27 August 2010, 21:13
thndrchikenFirst off the original m77's did have not have the angled front screw that came in with the MKII. It is supposed to ensure that the action is drawn in tight to the stock and provide consistent contact in the tang area. That is why the instructions state to just snug up the rear screw then tighten the front then tighten the rear. As far as making it harder to bed I haven't really found it to be any harder, just make sure that you have the release agent liberally applied and just do a skim coat for the recoil lug. Others don't like bedding the tang but I do. My M77 MKII in 270WSM is sub moa with most loads and my M77 Hawkeye in 35 Whelen is right at an inch with 250 gr hornady rn's.
27 August 2010, 21:31
jeffeossoTC,
I don't believe that is correct, but i could be wrong .. my 77 roundtop was angled .. Bill considered this to be a key thing for the action ... and yes, it does draw tighter and uses leverage to pull the action in
27 August 2010, 21:59
KabluewyI think this is sort of a silly discussion, because first of all Ruger ain't gonna change anything based on opinions stated herein.
Secondly, the set up works fine - the only "problem" is in traditionalist's heads.
IMO, perhaps all other makes of rifles should adopt and convert to the Ruger system - pay royalties if necessary - "problem" solved.
Traditionalists bitch about the Hogue stocks too. Yet I have a 458 on a Ruger MkII receiver, dropped in a Hogue stock - pillar type - with no additional recoil lug, and it's not only accurate, but it's holding together. It produces stout enough recoil to bust a 1x4 Leupold PDQ, but not the stock, even with just that puney recoil lug holding it in place. Granted, I'm thinking of switching to the full aluminum bedded block type of Hogue stock, just for the extra assurance. xtra recoil lug - naw, not necessary.
BTW, for you long barrel advocates, the barrel is 20", and I'm thinking I should have made it 18".
KB
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27 August 2010, 22:35
thndrchikenquote:
Posted 27 August 2010 20:31 Hide Post
TC,
I don't believe that is correct, but i could be wrong .. my 77 roundtop was angled .. Bill considered this to be a key thing for the action ... and yes, it does draw tighter and uses leverage to pull the action in
They may have made the change prior to the redesignating to the MKII. I know my grandfathers 30-06 was a straight screw. I couldn't even begin to venture a guess as to when it was made.
27 August 2010, 23:28
shootawayThe angle screw makes sense with the heavy kickers as part of the stock and screw are in somewhat of the same direction or facing the recoil.
28 August 2010, 00:28
jeffeossoTC,
the round top is the first production batch .. Bill Ruger used to run off at the mouth about locking the action in. if the front screw was straight, it was either not a ruger or modified .. PM Frank Martinez and ask him to verify .. he's got my old one
28 August 2010, 00:44
jeffeossohere's a link to boyd's gunstocks .. showing the 3 footprints of the "normal" m77s .. original and mkII (not rsm or 77/anything those are different guns).. there's three sets of two pictures .. on the lower right set, the tang safety, you will clearly see the angled front screw inletting for the "shoe" of the trigger guard
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/...tocks-Ruger-s/38.htmsorry, they don't allow cross posting to the pics
28 August 2010, 00:48
nsaqamJeff is right, both my 1968 back issues of American Rifleman featuring the introduction of the M77 and "Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank deHaas point out the angled front action screw as a patented feature of the M77 action.
Been there from the very beginning.
28 August 2010, 03:49
<Mike McGuire>quote:
Originally posted by thndrchiken:
As far as making it harder to bed I haven't really found it to be any harder, just make sure that you have the release agent liberally applied and just do a skim coat for the recoil lug.
With conventional actions I use headless screws in the action and just drop the barreled action into the stock, so easy.
In my opinion the best actions are those with big recoil lugs at the very front of the action and the screw behind the recoil lug in the middle of the bedding section as of course like M70 and Rem 700.
I used to own(still in the family) a flat bolt(early production) tang safety 77 in 6mm with the production date of jan 1969 stamped in the barrel channel.It has an angled front screw.
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quote:
Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I would be more concerned about the lack of a proper length barrel.
A 22" barrel on any rifle such as a 270, 280, 243 or 6mm just seems a nonsense. I'd rather have a full 24"!
you probably drink warm beer,too!
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SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM
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31 August 2010, 11:27
Bill LeeperI LIKE the angled guard screw! It may or may not be a great boon to accuracy but it is unique and it certainly does no harm.
In the '70's, a pair of brothers from Cherryville, B.C. (Bob and Albert Forslund)made their own benchrest actions. A prominent feature of these actions was the angled front screw. They thought highly of this feature and also used Ruger actions for their personal varmint rifles.
These guys were very good accuracy gunsmiths and accomplished benchrest shooters for the time.
I would like to see Ruger keep the screw but make a decent trigger and resurrect the tang safety. Regards, Bill.