I ordered a new threaded chambered barrel from them on June 3, and were told that it would be here by July 11th.

On July 11th, I asked where my barrel was? Just 3 more weeks I was told, making it Aug 1.

On Aug 7th I asked again, where is my barrel? Just 2 more weeks was again the answer.

Unless that barrel is a real tack-driver, when and if it ever gets here, screw 'em, I'll buy the next one from Walther like I should have in the first place. I would have, but they told me up front that it would 6-8 weeks, and I wanted one quicker. Now I still will get it the same time.

Terry you can count on Woody at L/W. When he seez you'll get your barrel in 6 to 8 weeks you can bet on it. Sometimes a little sooner but never later.

When I look back at the source of most of my mistakes and regrets, I'd say about 95% stemmed from impatience.

Terry,
The last and final barrel I had short chambered by them was a far worse scene than yours. I was told at the outset that it would be 6 weeks. That seemed reasonable as I was not in that big of a hurry. At 8 weeks or so I called them and they said they were having trouble getting that caliber and it would be another 2 weeks. Sometime later, beyond the 2 weeks I was told the same thing and another wait ensued. Next time I got the same story and in frustration I told them to change it to a 35 Whelen since they could not supply what I wanted. I was told that it would be six weeks since I changed my original order. I started to argue and was told that was it and they hung up. I lit my short fuse and called back and told them it was their problem in not being able to supply the barrel that caused me to have to switch gears and not mine. I was told they would get it out in 2 weeks which they did. The contour they sent did not what I ordered nor any in their list. It was to be blunt, butt ugly. I called and was told that I got it, and that was that.

I have heard they have new machinery in place and some things work better. I have also been told they have the same people in place and that is not a good thing.

You can save a buck in a lot of places when building a rifle. The barrel is not a place to be cheap.

[ 08-09-2003, 20:51: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Barrels?

You gets what you pays for.

Time?

Everybody can't have everything "right now". Ain't enough good stuff to go around.

I ordered a special bore dia. and groove dia. and twist from Krieger. No one else would tackle it. Krieger, as usual, came through. Took 7 months, but I now have it in my dirty paws.

Patience is required in most quality gun work.

If one is to tie up a good sum in a rifle, the barrel is the last thing to scrimp on.

My advice is to start planning and ordering parts now for the rifle you wish to use a year from now.

[ 08-09-2003, 22:18: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

I've used ER Shaw barrels and gunsmithing for years now. These are hunting rifles, and I've not had reason to complain.

I recently had another barrel installed and some other work done on the action. The work is good quality and the price is great.

I would use ER Shaw again......but I wouldn't want to be in a hurry. The last job was just over 6 months.

GV

I'd be tickled pink with a six month turn-a-round. I'm going on eleven months with Krieger.

I phoned Shaw to get some information from them and all I got was rudeness and the impression that they thought I was wasting their time....so I didn't order a barrel from them and never will. Their reputation isn't that good anyway.

Good Hunting,

[ 08-09-2003, 23:53: Message edited by: ACRecurve ]

You can save a buck in a lot of places when building a rifle. The barrel is not a place to be cheap.

If one is to tie up a good sum in a rifle, the barrel is the last thing to scrimp on.


Wise words there....

Today Im going out to chronograph some loads from a new .257 Shaw bbl that took over 8 months to get. While fireforming loads from it, I put 10 shots in 1 1/2" and it cleans up just fine. I have no problems with the bbl itself, but their service is shit and customers dont need to put up with that. They have no compunctions against lying to their customers over the phone, did it to us more than once. In my eyes that is reason enough to go elsewhere and another $50.00 is worth dealing with a company with some integrity.

Dempsey,

11 MONTHS, Damn! Thanks for the heads up, I dont think my next bbl will be a Krieger either.

I think next time I will either try a Douglas or a LW.

westrnhuntr

Don't shy away from Krieger. I am a little pissed with this one, but I've had them do others and they are usually around four months for a install, sometimes faster. Actually I'm more than a little pissed but it doesn't change the fact they are top notch barrels.

Last week I spent the better part of an hour on the phone talking with Woody at Lothar USA. It was just visiting on the phone about making barrels and rifles.

Just my opine here, but they have got a grip on the customer service and dang if they don't make a fine barrel. They have and are getting new CNC machines in and expanding the shop in GA.
The lapping machine first maps the bore, then laps it based on the mapping!

Any manager, who tells his employees that they need to respect the barrel they are working on because they are working for the person who ordered the barrel, gets my vote.

I won't see my barrel or rifle til sometime next fall or winter depending upon the delivery of the Montana PH series actions! I'm already impressed with the product!

I'm ordering another Lothar .423 barrel next month.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Could someone please fill me in, who has actually made barrels, as to why in the hell would it take 4-11 months to make a barrel. What in the world takes this long in the barrel making process. There can't surely be that big of a demand for custom barrels, so why the huge waits??

I think it's sad to see companies that treat their customers the way Shaw has been doing as told by the board members here, especially when the gun industry is so small. You can't do that for long if you want to stay in business. The best thing to do as a consumer, is go elsewhere for your work. It's just like the French, hit'em in the pocketbook. It's the onely place that will really hurt, and cause them wake up.

I ordered a 300 UM for p-17 rem ss fluted the 1st wk of april it arrived 3 aug. the friend I'm doing the rifle for has family and not a lot of money(been there and done that)shaw was able to fill his wants within his buget. The gun put the last 3 out of 4(1st one put it on paper)the second set of three, after cool down, went into the first three, total 5/8th inch. the friend was elated,shaw has a place<but speedy they are not.
The load was 92 grs 4831sc and barnes 150 xlc.

I always ask what they have on hand and ready to ship. If it is acceptable I buy it. You could get a PAC-NOR prefit and save lots of time. If you want them to make something odd that is a different thing.

On August 11, ER Shaw said "just a couple more weeks".

Now a couple of weeks have passed,and still no barrel.

Dumb me, I will not do this again.

6 to 8 months for a barrel? Wow!!! Let alone 6 to 8 weeks. As a barrel manufacturer (The Montana Rifleman) I'm not 100% sure on this, but the only reason I can see that they would have such a long delay in between your order and ship date is that they are doing contract work that is taking up all of their machine time. We, at the Montana Rifleman do contract work also but we make sure the customers orders are done as quickly as possible. In most cases we can have a barrel out of here completely turned in less than 3 weeks.

I can vouch for Dan and Montana. Several years ago I was looking and they not only made the barrel, chambered it fo 6.5-284 which was not usual at that time, and fit it to my action with blueing in 4 weeks total time including shipping. It still shoots 1/2". I have waited longer than that for a Lilja barrel alone. And the price was very right! Four months is out of the question.

I must be incredibly lucky. A few years ago, I ordered a Shaw barrel for my P-17 .300 Winchester Magnum. I ordered a blank and it came within a couple of weeks. Right off the bat, the thing gave me 1/2 m.o.a. I shoot exclusively moly-coated bullets through it, and cleanup is a breeze, even though I know it was not lapped.

Since then, I've dealt with them a couple of other times, and they've always been prompt, courteous and diligent.

I've heard simply wonderful things about Lothar Walther. I have no doubt they make a superior product in every way, including customer service. I'm sure I'll deal with them the next time I want a "serious" barrel.

But for a starter rifle or a hunting rifle or a "budget" rifle, I woudn't hesitate to call Shaw again.

I orderd two pac-Nor barrels for my 470NE project, they quoted me 6-8 weeks and it got here in 3 weeks. I think My next project will be with a Montana barrel though.

With respect to you guys who order Shaw barrels I will say one more time. Quote P.T.Barnum: "there is a sucker born every minute." If you have never had a decent barrel, then you would accept a SHAW. They want your money but don't give a shit about if you care for delivery or not.

Incidentally, the longest I have waited for a barrel is 12 weeks. It don't matter who I got it from, but after I got it, I turned the job out in another week. Thirteen weeks max. The average turn around time is 8 weeks. Go figger.

I've had quite a few barrel jobs done by Shaw - they usualy take 4 months, min. However, they did rebarrel a 700 SA to 358 in not much more than 2 months. They have always been helpful and courteous to me on the phone, even when I occasionally changed my mind. My only complaint - one time they put the recoil lug (on a 700) back on crooked so the action wouldn't sit square in the stock. My local smith fixed it for a few bucks, and they (Shaw) apologized profusely.

PAC-NOR has always turned around my barrel jobs faster than they quote. However, they did send me back a 257 Roberts that had a headspace problem (too tight) that required re-reaming the chamber. I don't like how PAC-NOR doesn't test fire their work - this would have saved me a headache. That aside, their barrels are very accurate (at least in my experience).

And to that last reply: I rest my case.

By the way, did you indicate you were from Wisconsin?

I would imagine there are a goodly number of companies out there that can make a good barrel. So what they're really selling is customer service and honesty. Honesty rates very high with me. If its going to be four months, say four months. Don't say eight weeks and then come up with a bullshit story about two weeks more and then another and another. Also, if they have promised the product in 8 weeks and something real has come up to where they can't produce, they should be on the phone CALLING YOU with an explaination and a new time frame. Not waiting until you get tired of waiting and call them. A lot of smiths and barrel makers like to project an image that they are doing you a favor and that they will march to their own drummer at their own beat; when, in fact, when they take your money, they are working for you.

Jim if you think I'm a "sucker", that's your choice. It is a free country, after all.

For your information, however, I'm not a bonehead when it comes to shooting or choosing barrels. I don't use Shaw barrels on my competitive target rifles. In my neck of the woods, the BCRA Palma team holds Krieger and McLennan in high regard. Our Canadian barrelmaker, McLennan, builds a product comparable to Krieger, and has never let us down, even though he can get backlogged with orders.

But like I said, my Shaw-barrelled .300 Winchester Magnum gives me 1/2 m.o.a. out to 200 metres and beyond. In fact, I chronographed factory-loaded 180-grain Winchester Failsafes at an average 3150 feet-per-second, and five of them went into slightly more than an inch at 200 metres -- the same as I was able to achieve with my "match" handloads using 190-grain Sierra Matchkings. I like this performance, and I believe it would be more than adequate for any hunting I might do in British Columbia. When you consider that I paid a total of something around $500 Canadian for this rifle, including action, stock, scope, barrel and all gunsmithing, I simply cannot complain.

If that makes me a "sucker", so be it. But at least I'm a satisfied sucker.

Mr. Kobe.....

The following post was a reply to you in another thread on another forum. Same subject material....

Read Col. Whelen's book about "Only accurate rifles are interesting". You or most other people wouldn't accept his standards of accuracy today! I wouldn't either because I know better is attainable. Anyway in the past almost 40 years I have used many different barrel companies. These include:

Douglas
Flaigs
McGowen
Shilen
Federal
Wilson
Bauska
OPK
Hart
Shaw
Wiseman
P.O. Ackley
Adams & Bennet

I may have missed some, but not many. I changed barrerls like some change underwear until I learned what could make the big difference in accuracy and that is what kind of job was done in installation. Along the way I had many different calibers and I admit I tired of a lot of them. I now have a few basic rifles in what I refer to as "Classic" chambered on mostly Springfield and Mauser 98 actions. There are actually more Shilen barrels than any other in my present arsenal, but two Shaws still shoot very well indeed including my pet 275 Rigby. I know I am not alone in finding Shaw barrels worth using as some fairly well known people have written about using them too.

The author used to reside in Wisconsin also........if that makes a difference to you.

GV

I said I was done, but maybe not. I had tried the Shaw route a few years back. Everyone I got from them (7) was sent back and got my money back because they were so rough I spent the next week cleaning out the copper fouling. They would shoot great, for about 15 rounds and the next week I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. I had a heavy barrel 22.250 from them that was so bad, I could guarnatee that one out of each 5 shot group would KEYHOLE! They actually went through the target crosswise and I saved the targets, still got them posted on the shop wall with a caption uder them that reads "This is an example of a bad example". I still contend, as PT Barnum said. A sucker is born every minute. I learned my lesson and it only took me 7 examples. What I am saying to you guys who find "acceptable" accuracy out of your Shaw barrels, You ain't shot a good barrel to know the difference or you ain't shot that Shaw enough rounds without cleaning to know what a piece of shit you have.

Terry B,
A man of your experience should know better than to be messing around with ER Shaw barrels. We have way too many excellent barrelmakers today to even consider a budget barrelmaker like Shaw. Shaw attracts the low end shooter who wishes to save a few bucks. Someone posted the barrel is not the place to be shaving $$ - they're right! Sorry if I sound like I'm hammering on ya but I do thank you for posting your experience with them.

MtnHtr

Pac-Nor told me three weeks.
Got it in hand at three weeks.
Price was very reasonable as well.
Customer service, twice, was very friendly.

I used to worry about barrel quality affecting group size, but no more.

1) I put a $50 A&B 243 barrel blank on a rifle. One fouling shot, the next three holes touching at 100m. The kicker is, then the barrel is copper fouled and takes a great deal of cleaning.

2) I saw the absolute worst barrel bore I have ever seen, on a 91/30 Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R, shoot most 5 shot groups at under an inch. That bore has so many pits, it has more rifling missing than still there. The owner hand lapped it an took out a tight spot, and religiously uses Outers Foul out to get out the rust and copper.

Now I am thinking that a better measure of barrels is how it shoots hot and how easy it is to keep clean. My Walther Lothar is my favorite right now.

Jim, you crack me up. And it's clear that you didn't read my last post.

Thanks a lot for informing me that I've never shot a good barrel before and I don't know what a piece of crap I have. I guess that myself and my fellow BCRA Palma competitors who use Krieger and McLennan on our competition rifles don't know anything at all about good barrels.

If you'd taken the time to read my post, you'd see that I said that the Shaw barrel I have on one of my hunting rifles gave me 1/2 m.o.a. That's good enough for my HUNTING rifle, not my competition rifle because the Shaw barrel is not designed to give a single group for long strings (22 rounds) of timed shooting. If that makes me ignorant, so be it.

Oh, and by the way, that Shaw barrel doesn't foul too badly at all -- even after 60-80 full-power .300 Winchester Magnum loads between cleanings. A few strokes with the brush, a couple of patches with Hoppe's, one patch with Sweet's, another patch with solvent to wash out the Sweet's -- and I'm done. But I guess I'm ignorant because I should be using a barrel on my hunting rifle which requires even less cleaning. If I continue to do this, I know I'll never be as enlightened as you.

I'm so glad that you are so all-seeing as to presume about my level of experience with various barrels, my skills as a shooter, and my use of Shaw barrels to the exclusion of all others. Too bad that you're wrong on every single one of your assumptions.

Finally last Thursday, I told Shaw to either ship it or forget it.

They were kind enough to write right back, and tell me they were canceling the order, saying they still had not even contoured any 7 MM barrels lately, and still had no firm date to commit to for delivery.

So I have now ordered a Walther like I should have done in the first place.

Assumptions????? spelled ass-u-me

Terry

If I may be so bold as to ask, "What made you decide to order a barrel from E.R. Shaw to begin with?" Was it price, quality, delivery time, you merely wanted to try one, or something else? I am not trying to be a smart aleck but really am curious why you did order it, since most people seem to have a very good reason why they order the make of barrel they do.

I have been surprised by what some fairly well read people have had to say about Shaw barrels in the past, John Barsness and Finn Aggaard to name a couple, and my own experience mirrors others in this thread. That is, that Shaw barrels work very well for hunting rifles but don't be in a rush to get one. Since I usually have parts for a rifle I plan to build lying around for at least a year ahead of time it would not be a problem to me if it took a year to get a certain barrel IF I really wanted one. At present there is a Krieger 375 barrel sitting on my shelf complete with band front sight and band swivel that I may not have an action for until a year from now. Maybe not even then. But I want that particular action, because of FEATURES and PRICE , so I will wait until it arrives. As others have said if one can't live with time frames like that it is probably best not to get involved with them because of future frustration that will probably occur. I can understand if someone feels this way, I am just saying such isn't the case with me. I am betting this has a lot to do with why shipping times are a bit long at times.

I have also been curious as to why Shaw advertises barrels that are an exact replacement contour for a factory Remington 700. Does this mean they are supplying barrels to someone who turns out a lot of rifles using Remington 700 actions? I would certainly guess this to be the case. It would seem to me someone has obviously made it worth their while to set up a machine to do this. It would further seem that if it was a simple task they would offer factory contours for most factory rifles not just Reminfton 700s.