Many years ago I purchased a new Montana action from a member here and had Douglas thread a .416 Remington barrel on it. Life has intruded and I get it out of the safe every couple of years to fiddle with it, then get discouraged and bury it back in the safe.

It will feed empty brass from the magazine like proofing dummies, puts three 350gr TSX bullets under an inch at 100 yards with regularity. But it also has light strikes three or four times per box of ammo. Re-striking them usually doesn’t fire the cartridge. A friend tried three of my “duds” in his #1 and they all fired. This was with my reloads, we also fired 10 Federal Safari 400gr TBBC ($OUCH$!) and they were 100%.

I took the rifle back to Douglas yesterday and the headspace was correct. Today I tried to measure the firing pin protrusion and it’s under 0.05” as best I can measure. I’m beginning to believe that is my problem.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to increase the amount of protrusion on one of these?

Protrusion is normal; your spring is weak; change it out. I do like about .055-.060 though.
Next time you are there, say Hello to Gina for me.
I used to date a girl who lived in Cross Lanes and we would go to Douglas on dates.

I've seen firing pin protrusion recommended from .035" to .055".

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Protrusion is normal; your spring is weak; change it out. I do like about .055-.060 though.
Next time you are there, say Hello to Gina for me.
I used to date a girl who lived in Cross Lanes and we would go to Douglas on dates.

LOL! You sure know how to show a girl a good time! I’ll give your regards to Gina next time I go there.

I forgot to mention that I changed to a M-70 spring that was I believe four coils longer than the OEM spring and it didn’t help.

Model 70 springs aren't overly stiff; get a Wolf one.

I’ll give Wolf a try. I’d kind of like this rifle to work reliably.

Do you notice when you unscrew the Shroud and F-pin assembly and begin to remove it from the bolt body that you can feel resistance caused by the spring body OD coming in contact with the ID of the bolt body?

If you completely remove the spring from the F-Pin assembly and just slide the F-pin spring into the bolt body does it drag on the sides of the bolt ID

Likewise if you were to take F-pin spring and just slide it onto the F-pin body, is the spring ID coming in contact with the body of the Firing pin and binding ?

Is the cocking piece dragging in any way on the ID of the shroud itself?

I have found dozens of Springs and F-pins as well as cocking pieces that were bound up with one another. Not long ago I ordered some newly manufactured F-pin springs that would not in anyway slide onto the firing pins they were due to replace. I called the Manufacture and pointed this out and they said " All are springs are made to the same specs, your F-pin shaft OD is to large and out of spec"

My reply was "the firing in question is to spec along with the 14 others laying on the bench, do you all have a set of Gauge Pins to confirm your statement and tolerances ?"

"Gauge what?" was the reply

DArcy_Echols_Co,

The OEM spring had a smaller ID than the replacement Winchester LA spring I purchased (and forgot where I got it) and the new spring is about four coils longer than the OEM.

When relaxed the new spring slides freely over the firing pin and inside the bolt body. When mounted on the firing pin and cocked it gets a wave going that touches the bolt interior. When uncocked it moves freely. The FP assembly strikes noticeably louder with the new spring compared to the OEM.

The cocking piece moves freely inside the bolt shroud.

I pulled the bullet and powder out of a dud cartridge earlier this evening. I put the case with the dented primer in my .458 Lott and it fired the primer with a much deeper dent than the initial hit from the Montana action.

I’m thinking due some tolerance voodoo the 0.049ish firing pin protrusion is the problem and wondering if I can loosen the allen capscrew in the cocking piece and screw the FP out a partial turn creating more protrusion. I also plan on calling Wolfe tomorrow and see what they recommend for a FP spring.

You're about 0.010" short on FP protrusion. You have an accurate way to measure that?

quote:

Originally posted by slivers:
You're about 0.010" short on FP protrusion. You have an accurate way to measure that?

I used the end of my analog caliper on the tip of the FP and extended the slider down till it touched the bolt face.
So the answer is “No” I don’t.

Most of the OEM 70 springs that do not tend to drag inside the bolt body measure .408 on the OD

You might compare the 70 and the Montana

I’ve never had a Montana in my shop so I’m picking shit with the chicken’s I’m afraid

I appreciate everyone’s input and understand that it’s hard to diagnose “My gun don’t work” over the Internet.

I think my first task is to sort out the spring issue. Then I’ll see if the protrusion is sufficient or needs attention too.

Thank you everyone

I’m not all that sure the protrusion is to short for all practical purposes

I’d contact Montana and get one of they’re F-pin springs and try it 1st before going any further yet

Something else you may want to look at: Make sure the bolt is fully closed and the handle is not touching the stock. Also make sure the cocking piece is moving freely and not dragging in the bolt notch or on the sear, and that the tip is not bottoming out in the notch. I have encountered all of these at one time or another and they can slow down the striker.
C.G.B.

For some reason, I just re read your OP; it said that your FP protrusion is UNDER .050! I did not see the Under word before.
Fifty thousandths is fine; Thirty or Forty might not be.
The problem is exacerbated by belted mags; most guys don't realize that there is a huge tolerance allowed between maximum chambers and minimum brass; like .018. So, in rare cases/cirbumstances it is possible to be within specs and have misfires. And hard ish primers....weak ish spring. They add up.
You need a professional to inspect it; not here; all this is just speculation.

quote:

Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
I’d contact Montana and get one of they’re F-pin springs and try it 1st before going any further yet

I called the latest version of the Montana Rifle Company on Monday and they apparently don’t really claim the 1999 action. The young fellow I spoke to said that he would ask the company engineer to call me. Still waiting…

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
Something else you may want to look at: Make sure the bolt is fully closed and the handle is not touching the stock.
C.G.B.

This gun is in a MacMillian stock and all that is good. Thanks for reminding me.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
For some reason, I just re read your OP; it said that your FP protrusion is UNDER .050! I did not see the Under word before.
Fifty thousandths is fine; Thirty or Forty might not be.
The problem is exacerbated by belted mags; most guys don't realize that there is a huge tolerance allowed between maximum chambers and minimum brass; like .018. So, in rare cases/cirbumstances it is possible to be within specs and have misfires. And hard ish primers....weak ish spring. They add up.
You need a professional to inspect it; not here; all this is just speculation.

Thanks for this. My friend is a pretty competent gun tinkerer and he’s confused too.
It makes sense that there is some kind of tolerance stack where 0.04somethingclose” firing pin extrusion + a generous but in “spec” headspace + three different brands of brass just isn’t 100%.

I’ve fired the rifle each of the last three days and it seems to be 100% with Federal standard or Remington 9 1/2 primers. It is iffy with CCI standard or magnum and Winchester standard primers.

I also called Wolff and the gent there says my replacement spring from Midwest Guns probably was made by Wolff. I cut one coil off of the new spring and it lays much straighter.

I’m probably in need of professional help but not planning any eminent big game hunts either.

Imminent; Eminent requires Devine Intervention.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Imminent; Eminent requires Devine Intervention.

They’res a reason I ain’t teaching English


Edited to add
Maybe Devine Intervention is what my rifle needs.