I have been looking at an 03 here lately and might buy it cheap, what then? I've heard my whole life how desireable they are as a foundation for a sporter but for the life of me I can't recall when I've seen one sporterized nicely. What do you do with the ugly cocking piece and the selector or magazine cut off on the left side?
What do I watch for I've heard to stay clear of certain serial numbers what are they?
Thanks everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I've heard my whole life how desireable they are as a foundation for a sporter but for the life of me I can't recall when I've seen one sporterized nicely.

LOL

Well, I would likely suggest you purchase a copy of Michael Petrov's book "Custom Gunmakers of the 20th Century". If you remain unconvinced, you probably won't be pleased with your time, effort, and money involved in any "sporterization".

quote:

What do you do with the ugly cocking piece and the selector or magazine cut off on the left side?

Leave them as is. They are "delightful anomolies" of the action. As is the high rear bridge to account for the safety lug on the bolt.

quote:

What do I watch for I've heard to stay clear of certain serial numbers what are they?
Thanks everyone.

Roughly speaking....above 800,000 for Springfields, above 285,506 for Rock Island actions. There are differing schools of thought on how safe or unsafe earlier actions are. Do a search on this forum for the many discussions.

GV

If you get a good one, leave it alone.

I bought one in 1960 for $39 (all I could afford) and like a fool, had it sporterized.

Instead of being worth 7 to 8 hundred dollars now, it value is way less now.

Why not just leave it the way it is. Maybe a new barrel at most.

Leaving it stock isn't an option, it has been partially "sporterized", a sporter stock and bent/swept bolt, I need to look at the bottom metal to see if it is military or something else. Barrel is as issued.
The cocking piece actually doesn't bother me and I could grow fond of it but what if anything can be done with the cut off switch on the left side?
How suitable is the action for a heavy rifle ( large caliber)?

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom: but what if anything can be done with the cut off switch on the left side?

The "cutoff switch" also acts as the bolt stop. I leave it in the "on" (upward) position all the time. When I restocked mine, I let the stock stop the cutoff in the intermediate position. That way, the "off" (downward) function of the cutoff is no longer used and the intermediate position allows for bolt removal. There are other ways to deal with this, others will advise, I'm sure. Come to think of it, Dago Red posted some photos on this a while back. A search would probaly turn them up.

This is probably the nicest '03 I've laid eyes on. 2003 ACGG

The photos do not do this rifle justice as it was absolutely spectacular to view in person.

take a look at gunbroker.com 42589405, a spectacular pair of custom 1903s.

I agree with some of the others. I like the cocking piece and choose to leave them alone. I chose to leave the bolt release alone as well. A good smith could rig something else up though. All it takes is money.

As to catridge size. You might want to talk that over with a gunsmith once you send him the action for evaluation. But they have been used to build 35 Whelen's, 9.3X62's, 338 Win Mags and I was told that one I am getting worked over would have been fine for a 411 Hawk(400 Whelen) or even a 416 Taylor or 416 Rem Mag. I opted for the 35 Whelen in that one though.

Here is a picture of a re-worked Model of 1903 in 30-06 whose stock should be close to completion.

Let's see if I can get a pic on here. This is a reshaped magazine cutoff boss made like a boatail bullet. Also has new switch, swept back profile, and new retaining pin. This is cosmetically more pleasing, also notice it goes from the On position to the mid position, no lower. It is setup to make inletting in the stock easier as well.

The 03 already is pretty nice looking, the 03a3 is just ugly. I would not loose the cocking piece myself, I love them, there are certain features on actions that I think "define" them, the cocking knob is IT on the springfield for me. Not that they don't look nice without it too, just not my taste.

See if this works:


Red

54JNoll what is the bottom metal on the one you have posted? Very nice action, I really like it.

Dago Red thanks for your picture too, I really like that modification to the cut off switch, perfect! Who did that modification?

I think I'm convinced, if the one i'm looking at has an appropriate serial number range I'll pick it up and get the ball rolling.
Thanks to you all.

Dago Red, I like the bolt release modification. Very slick.

Snellstrom: Jim Dubell of Delta Gun Shop did all the metal work on the action I posted above. Jim Dubell cut the forward section from the trigger bow of the stock military milled bottom metal. He then welded in a chunck of metal and reshapped it to the above profile and then fit a floor plate release internal to the trigger bow and fit it to work with a custom strattle floor plate of his design as well.

Start looking early for parts because some parts are hard to come by or are made in limited batches based on demand. I think Weisner makes Springfield bottom metal as well but you will have to check on availability.

Here is a befor and after photo of the bottom metal.

And for cartridges just about any '06-based or short magnum round will fit and feed relatively easily. I used to have one in .358 Norma Mag that was a GREAT rifle, and currently have a high numbered Rock Island in .458 Winchester.

54JNoll,

That is some fine looking bottom metal you have there. I always did like the shape of '03 bottom metal. Especially the trigger gaurd bow. Do you have any more detail shots of that you could post?

What about safeties for a 03? Anyone offering a 3-position safety, or is that a straight custom-build option?

The 1903 (and variants) have exactly the same issues and pitefalls of the mauser (the us had to pay a patent infringement on them)

For the lowbuck, they make a nicer looking gun that most lowbuk mausers (assuming you put a milled trigger guard on them)

I feel, because I like them alot, that they CAN be made into more desirable (on average - there's exceptions with money) sporter than most mausers.

Ed Lapour?? Makes 3 pos safeties for them

mauser boxes CAN be modified to fit them

you are really limited to 3.38 max oal until you start doing some major rework.

let's say this.. if enfields can be made stunning, it's FAR easier to get there with a springfield

i have (or had) them in , 358 win, 30-06, 300win, 257xwsm and might do one of the AR rounds on one

jeffe

Belaw,

Ed Lapour makes a 3 position safety for the 03.

http://www.edlapourgunsmithing.com

Click on Products, then 3-position safeties, then Springfield

Here are a couple more pictures. The safety on this is Ed Lapour's 3-Pos safety with the cosking knob retained.

This view shows off some of Scrollcutter's outstanding work as well.



Another view that shows off the recontourd trigger bow a little better.



One more

Damn that's some fine looking work.
Jim Dubell has an old Marlin I sent him after seeing your original pictures of this action some time ago. It'll be a while till I see mine finished though.

- stu

Stu don't dispair, I talked with Jim earlier this week. He is trying to dig out from his backlog at the moment. It took quite a while for him to get the reboring operation up to speed and he had to finish next years guild project rifle and have it ready for display at this years show. Jim currently has two more of my actions sitting in his shop. With any luck we both will "shortly" have some more of Jim's fine work finished up to drool over. Shortly is of course a relative term when considering custom work.

Actually I don't really mind the wait (Jim - don't read this!).
And he doesn't even have the barrel yet. That's been a wait in itself.

- stu

Guys,
Thanks for putting up with my delays! I think I'll get things under my control now instead of the projects controlling my time.
.....and Stu....well, I went ahead and printed that out, hung one copy on the wall and attached one to the work order!!
Ya should be more careful...if its in print it must be so!!

Thanks again
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jim_Dubell:

.....and Stu....well, I went ahead and printed that out, hung one copy on the wall and attached one to the work order!!
Ya should be more careful...if its in print it must be so!!

Don't believe everything you read!
Now get back to that lathe

- stu

Jim, In that case I am not going to say I don't mind waiting.

I will say that your work is definately worth waiting for though.

54JKnoll

That springfield is just exquisite. But when are we going to see it in its STOCK?

And, you say Mr. Dubiel finished next year's guild rifle. What is it? Are there any photos of it anywhere?

One last nosy question. How many lines per inch is the checkering on that bolt knob?

quote:

What about safeties for a 03? Anyone offering a 3-position safety, or is that a straight custom-build option?

quote:

Belaw,

Ed Lapour makes a 3 position safety for the 03.

http://www.edlapourgunsmithing.com

Click on Products, then 3-position safeties, then Springfield

While not in the same league as the great rifle of 54JNoll's, here is another 1903 that has a 3 position safety of Ed Lapours. This one doesn't have the cocking knob on it.



Here is a picture of the entire action.

I have two 03 Springfields [one is actually a Rock Island Arsnl] and they are both super smooth rifles. One is my old 333OKH, but the other still has the military barrel and it is rough, all of the gun is rough, and the rest of the action was refinished and buffed a little aggresively. Can the pulled lettering and screw holes be fixed to look right? Would this still be a good candidate for a custom gun.

I may have been in search for an action and had one sitting in the closet all the time.

I am one of (what I think is) the minority who is doubtful about checkering and/or engraving bolt knobs. It slows you down.

What type of triggers would you all suggest? Are there any that are as simple as a Win M/70 type? I prefer those over a lot of the highly adjustable models like Timney. I thought I once say a light pull trigger that was close to a military Mauser in appearence, but adj.?

I've always used Timneys with great satisfaction. I'm sure others work well also but question whether they work any better.

Idared, that is a fine looking Springfield to my eyes. Besides youand Grandview are in some ways responsible for me going ahead on this project. Thanks for the help and opinions you gave me in reguards to the action. If you recall it was in rather rough shape before Jim got ahold of it. Rust, pitting, bolt face slightly pitted, extra scope base holes on the front and rear of the action that where not filled right.

I think Jim really turned my sows ear into a silk purse.

22WRF,

Jim told me earlier last year that the guild raffles one rifle off each year but that the following years rifle is supposed to be finished and displayed as well in order to start getting intrest up and to work on the fliers etc. I do not remember what it is and I have not seen any pictures either.

Yes I would like to not only see it in its stock but I would like to be holding it and shooting it as well. But that little detail is up to Chic. Actually Roger will be doing a little more work to this action yet as well once Chic feels comfortable with how everything is fitting into the stock and its balance is right.

333_OKH,

Your rifle in the picture is in far better shape than the action I started with. I don't know if the lettering can be pulled out but it can be recut. Surface grinding should clean the lines back up and make them sharp again. Screw holes may need to be filled in but it really depends on where they are and what is wrong and what you want to do with the rifle.

The scope bases on the action in these pictures is another Jim Dubell inovation. This action had been drilled and tapped for two different styles of scope mounts. Weaver and Stith. The stith mounts required the holes be drilled off to the sides of the action rather than top dead center. Another smith had attempted to fill the holes prior to my acquireing it. Unfortunately he did a rather poor job of it and it would have showed in the final work. Comercial bases even custom fit would not have solved the problem. So Jim recommended he make a set up specifically to hide them. Jim made the base extra wide and contoured it to exactly fit the front ring and fit the rear bridge as well. He said it would give the appearance of a double sqaure bridge effect and once finished there would be no discolored/off-color circles starting at me from the blueing. Jim then milled them for Talley rings. In this case the holes could not be "fixed" but with an open mind the problem could be corrected.

Here area couple pictures of what the action looked like before Jim applied his considerable skill in its transformation. Hard to believ it is the same action sometimes.

Pardon the poor photography.

Here is the right side. As you can see there is considerable surface rust. Most of it was not deep though.



Here is a picture showing the poorly filled holes. I outlined them in red to make them clearer in the picture.



This picture shows the same thing but at the rear of the action.



But as you can see by the previous pictures, all this and more was fixed and corrected.

The trigger on this action is a Dayton Tristar. I have a Timney on another 03-A3 action though. Sorry no pictures of that one.

54JNoll

Thanks for the kind words about my action. It is my "06" project in 2006. Here is a picture of the barrel I plan on installing on it.



It was made by an old gunsmith from the area I lived in several years ago. I was fortunate to pick it up recently and am looking forward to having it put on the action.

I agree that Jim really turned a sows ear into a silk purse but that's what true craftsman are able to do. I still remember your first e-mail to me about that action. I'm glad you went ahead with the project and even more glad you made it a 30-06.

Nice barrel. I like it. It should really make for a rather stunning effect when mated to your action.

I thought about going with and oct-rnd barrel by Mark Stratton but had to forgo that idea due to cost. Every project has its breaking point.

Your '06 project ought to be real sweet once complete.

The only extra holes I have are for the Redfield peep sight that I will be removing from the gun if I decide to use it for a custom. The bolt has a lot of machine marks etc on it, but is a snug and smooth fit. Other than the sight, and reblue, the action is stock. It is actually fairly tight if I do not have it oiled. I love the square bridge effect you have with Jim's mounts. I actually thought they were full bridges not mounts. If I may ask, could you PM my here and give me an idea of the bridge work costs, just for a ballpark figure? If not that is okay.

I checked with Williams and Weisner and neither of them make bottom metal for the 03. Is there any producers currently making this metal? I could not track down Blackburn's web or contact information to check woith them.

PM sent.

I have been told that it is possible to fit Mauser bottom metal to the Springfield which would make sence since the Springfield was copied from the Mauser.

Just something else to talk about when considering options.

Another PM sent.

Has anyone seen a Springfield with a straight down pear shaped Mauser bolt?

Something like this?