I'm doing a huge project in English where I learn a lot about a career I am interested in. I plan on becoming a mechanical or chemical engineer, so I was going to call up several firearms manufacturers and ask them about careers available in their company to engineers. However, I don't want to sound like I know nothing, so I was hoping someone could fill me in that knows a bit about the subject.

Thanks,
Tyler

Why don't you got to their websites and look at their employment openings and you should be able to garner a lot of information just based on the way they describe the jobs.

Also go to the About Us or Coporate Information Section and look at the bios/job functions of the leadership team. That may given you and idea of how they are structured.

In the mid 50s I was just out of the army and was going to school to become a mechanical Eng. My quest was the same as yours is now. I was also studying under a Gun smith and comunicating with Warren Page. The gun smith advised me to stick with Engineer as he didn't think I could make a living at gun Smithing and when I asked Warren to help me get a job when out of school. He said that I'd be making a big mistake making a vocation out of an avocation. In essence he was telling me if I had to work at it every day I would fail to get the enjoyment I got out of it as a hobby.Didn't accept that at all at the time. After 50 some years I know it was true.

Now you didn't want to hear that. Did you? roger

quote:

I was hoping someone could fill me in that knows a bit about the subject.

I've always believed one should follow his dreams.....but remember....nightmares and dreams are found in exactly the same place!

Follow the money " Political Embezzlement" seems pretty lucrative now days !.

Contact Tim Geithner and ask for money market math analysis program guidance !.

You have my permission to use my name as I signed up on the Boston Tea Party !.

It's time some of us started doing the math correctly . Because DC it F ' UP !!!.

Just a few words from a fello mech engineer. As I graduated college I became imediatly bored with engineering. So I decided to follow my dreams at the time and become a hunting and fishing guide. That decision almost destroyed my love for both. Work will always become work no matter what the job is. Since then I have gone back to engineering. For a few years know my hobby has been building custom rifles. But that will only be a hobby.
Use your education to make your liveing.

I would think that engineering careers would be pretty tough to come by in the gun field simply because of the limited number of manufactures. However that shouldn't stop you from contacting them. An engineering job wether it be in firearms, auto or whatever is going to be based on the same principles. You also shouldn't get "gunsmith" confused with engineer because there is a lot of difference. With that said try to find out what areas they use engineers for such as metalurgy, drafting, design, chemical, etc. and figure out what field you are interested in. I myself have an engineering degree but I run a small business (machining related) so I haven't had the chance to expand my knowledge, however I don't regret getting the education it has been usefel in my job and in my gunsmithing addiction. I have always been fascinated by metalurgy and thought that if I pursued an engineering job I would lean towards that field.

I am a mechanical engineer and custom gunmaker and say go for it. We are moving into an age when it will be easier than ever to make a good living working as a custom gunmaker. Engineering will give you a great background for problem solving, as well as teach you things that will help in gunmaking.

I suggest people go to work at a job for 2 years before going out on their own. Or 2 jobs for 2 years each, then take the plunge. Depends on what you already know and have done.

It really is not harder to do what you love than it is to do what you hate (or just tolerate), so go ahead and do what you love. It takes uncommon courage to do that, but if you do you will find it is true. Will it be hard? You bet! But every single business in any field that is opened is hard and there are a lot of miserable business owners. Work to your passion and it will help you with the energy needed to make any new business fly.

Last bit of advice is to ask for advice, but consider the source. Always listen, as you never know who will give you a good nugget of information that will help you down the road. But do not consider all advice of equal value. Search out the most successful people you can find in any field and find out how they got there. The earlier you start this process, the sooner you can go out on your own. And take business classes while you are still in college. Even if you have to go an extra year, do it! Learn everything you can from business classes and successful business owners. Talk to people who crashed and burned. Find someone who has lost more than the average American grosses in their lifetime and that person can tell you a hell of a lot about making money. Focus on running a business that MAKES MONEY by making guns. You must look at it as a business first. That does not take away from the gunmaking in the least. It is still a gunmaking business, but it is a business!

Few gunmakers actually make any money at all. But that is true for most businesses. Learn how to make money and apply what you learn to making guns. Then you are living in the best of both worlds. It can be done and you are very fortunate to be coming into the market at this time. More possibility than ever out there for people with visions. OK, last advice (forgot about this). Train your brain to always look at everything from 30,000’ at first. Start in the macro and then focus in on whatever it is you are doing. Very few people are naturals at this, but everyone can improve their ability to do so by training their brain.

Good luck! You really are entering the business at the best time in history.

Plus 1 on the business training, I forgot to add that. Had I known I would be doing what I am now I would have taken classes myself. I think there is a statistic that says something like 2 out of 3 small businesses fail in the first year, if someone knows please correct me. All of the failing gunsmiths I have met or heard of were also poor business men.

It seems I may have stated the question wrong or not given quite enough information.

I wasn't exactly asking about becoming an independent gunsmith. I will try to restate it better:

What careers are available in the firearms industry, under major companies, to engineers? By this I'm asking if I am a mechanical engineer and I go to Savage looking for a job, what positions are available? I also am interested in chemical engineering, but if it is at all like the "chemistry" we do in school, I found out I do not enjoy that at all. I thought maybe working for a propellant company would be neat, but that seems like jobs would be even more scarce than the other.

A gunsmith would be an enjoyable job, but as others said I'm not sure I could make a living off that.


Thanks for the answers!

quote:

I think there is a statistic that says something like 2 out of 3 small businesses fail in the first year, if someone knows please correct me. All of the failing gunsmiths I have met or heard of were also poor business men.

The last data I saw showed roughly 1 in 10 businesses are open at the 5 year mark. It was down to around 4% at the 10 year mark.

Tyler - PM sent...

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
He said that I'd be making a big mistake making a vocation out of an avocation. In essence he was telling me if I had to work at it every day I would fail to get the enjoyment I got out of it as a hobby.

I think that this is true, we need probably both, a job we like plus a hobby that complements the intellectial challenges from job and family.

Besides, when a hobby gets boring or when you just want to try something new, it is much easier exploring a new hobby than getting another job.

Personally, I find that engineering is an exciting activity in most existing flavours, especially when you can combine it with any kind of marketing or sales related activity.

Good luck on finding an engineering job in the gun industry. I had a job offer from the government testing weapons in Maryland when I got my EE degree, but my wife couldn't stand the location. Stupid me, I listened to her. Found that lots of other "engineering" jobs were paper pushing, and bureacratic nightmares. Looking forward to retiring, and opening up my gunsmithing shop in a few months, now. But my concept of meaningful work is hands on, and being able to admire what was produced. Hell, my job at IBM for 5 years was to eliminate the human factor in making computers. Goes against my nature, but that's what manufacturers want. I'm much happier in the construction business, even though the EE part is much more basic stuff.

what's teh difference in a 20 piece chicken dinner nad a full time gunsmithing?

the 20 pc can feed a family of 5 !!

I am not a gunsmith and I do not work in the firearms industry. But I am a mechanical engineer that has worked in multiple areas such as military avianics, high tech electronics, and robotics worlds.

I have found that for any product whether it be a new automatic pistol or an automobile transmission, the engineering effort to design and build the first working prototype is certainly no light task. Taking many hundreds if not thousands of hours. But it has been my experience that to take that prototype into a high production mode, not a few hundred units but hundreds of thousands. That the engineering effort required to support that production will be much more than the engineering effort expended to design the product. I dont have quantitaive numbers but having worked on the product and then support for production I have seen a 2x ratio where the production engineering was twice the effort of product engineering. Production support engineering would show itself in tooling, fixtures, automated assembly, testing, production processes, etc etc.

Tyler, start by asking questions of those people close to home. For you, I would look at the Sierra bullet folks as well as Starline brass. They are next door to each other in Sedalia. You can call Sierra and actually talk to management, or you can spend an enjoyable day when you are not in school visiting and asking all of your questions. I know Sierra will spend time with you. I believe the Hodgdon people here in Kansas City (Shawnee) will also spend some time with you. They are all very fine people.

Second, listen to Mr. Stokeld, he knows of whence he speaks. The last figures I have are 1 in 10 make it 5 years. Learn BUSINESS along with, or before, you learn a trade. Never go out on your own without learning on someone elses money first, meaning, get a job working in the industry first and then go off on your own. I spent 18 years working in the telecommunications/data field working for people like AT&T, Bell Labs, GTE and Southwestern Bell before I went out on my own 17 years ago...well actually I work for my wife who did the same thing. Finally, if you do go out on your own, honesty and integrity will get you as far as your skills do. Your skills will get you work, honesty, integrity and communication will keep it coming back. In the 18 years since my wife started our business, we have NEVER had to advertise because of our uncompromising integrity. Word of mouth keeps more business than we can handle coming our way. I am sure it is the same in the gun business.

Hope it helps.

Thanks for all your help, I have a couple people to call and talk to now. Should be a good time!

quote:

Originally posted by RayGunter:


I dont have quantitaive numbers but having worked on the product and then support for production I have seen a 2x ratio where the production engineering was twice the effort of product engineering. Production support engineering would show itself in tooling, fixtures, automated assembly, testing, production processes, etc etc.

Basicly the meesage you are trying to convey is correct ,however, you are intermingling Process Engineering with Production Engineering and they are greatly different. Worked as both and do know. roger

Talk to these folks. http://www.hpwhite.com/ Perhaps they can provide you with some info on an engineering career in firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
Finally, if you do go out on your own, honesty and integrity will get you as far as your skills do. Your skills will get you work, honesty, integrity and communication will keep it coming back.

Words of wisdom, I congratulate you and your wife to your ethical attitude!

I wish this was more widespread, we might not have suffered the current crisis.

quote:

Originally posted by larrys:
In the 18 years since my wife started our business, we have NEVER had to advertise because of our uncompromising integrity. Word of mouth keeps more business than we can handle coming our way.

I am happy to read that it paid off for you. Keep it this way and let others know about it, we do need examples like you in all industries, not only in finance.

Why target an industry which has a lower annual dollar volume than the two largest McDonald franchises in New York City?

DUK, thanks for the kind words. Part of why we got into consulting was because we thought we could correct the lack of ethics in the undustry. So far, it has worked.

My father got a degree in EE from UW.
He got a job where they made guns and he got a couple dozen gun design patents.

I got a degree in EE from UW and as a hobby I re barrel old Mausers.

Talked to a member on here named Rusty Marlin today, and he is a real nice guy!

quote:

Originally posted by papapaul:
Why target an industry which has a lower annual dollar volume than the two largest McDonald franchises in New York City?

The reason is that it has sex-appeal for the young, like all professions related with hobbies as fishing, saliling, horses, and so on. The same applies for jobs in advertising, acting or professional sports, it sounds exciting and like big money because all know the stars, but very, very few are able to make a decent living out of that.

I'll recommend my children to pursue different carrer paths with less glamour but sufficient income to afford nice activities during their leasure times.

quote:

less glamour but sufficient income

Politics Herr DUK ...???

No, investment banking or realtor!

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
He said that I'd be making a big mistake making a vocation out of an avocation. In essence he was telling me if I had to work at it every day I would fail to get the enjoyment I got out of it as a hobby.Didn't accept that at all at the time. After 50 some years I know it was true.

Now you didn't want to hear that. Did you? roger

Ain't that the truth!!