I have a friend who has an enfield #1 mark 3 made in 1918. (I'm pretty sure this is correct)Would this action be worth using to build a gun around? I know little, ok, nothing about what actions are the ones to look for for a custom gun. If there are certain actions I should be looking for I'd like to know what they are.

Thanks

quote:

have a friend who has an enfield #1 mark 3 made in 1918. (I'm pretty sure this is correct)Would this action be worth using to build a gun around?

IMO....NO it wouldn't!

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If there are certain actions I should be looking for I'd like to know what they are.

Mausers and springfields and Model of 1917 Enfields make excellent sporters.....but if cost is a factor I'd be looking for Winchester M-70 or Remington 700 Sako, etc.

Some of the finest sporters are made from post war FN Mauser actions such as the J C Higgens! Not horribly expensive and work very well.

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
I have a friend who has an enfield #1 mark 3 made in 1918. (I'm pretty sure this is correct)Would this action be worth using to build a gun around? I know little, ok, nothing about what actions are the ones to look for for a custom gun. If there are certain actions I should be looking for I'd like to know what they are.

Thanks

Don't buy it!! Honestly it's crap! vapodog has you on the right track.

oh my..
a #1 or #3 enfield is more or less always going to look like exactly what it is... fugly....

but, you can set everything back a couple inches, and do what Hogkiller did on his 308 one, making a carbine/tractor rifle..

if you want to make a custom rifle, please at least start with an enfield pattern 1914 or model 1917, not a SMLE

jeffe

Thanks for the replies. I'll keep looking for a mauser action.

BTW vapdog, where in Western Nebraska? I'm in Chadron.

It's hardly "crap," but is not in favor with most gunmakers and gun owners. But if it is in nice condition it is a very nice action none the less.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
It's hardly "crap," but is not in favor with most gunmakers and gun owners. But if it is in nice condition it is a very nice action none the less.

Marc is right here....I've seen a few very nice customs made from these actions.....but ....

I equate it to having sex with your mother-in-law, shortly thereafter you'll regret it bigtime!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Some of the finest sporters are made from post war FN Mauser actions such as the J C Higgens! Not horribly expensive and work very well.

Um, please point me to some. Most are made either off a commercial Mauser action or converted military action. While the FN made JC higgins is nice as are the FN's, they are hardly the action most used to make fine rifles.

But, please post us some pics to prove me wrong.

As for the Enfield action, I have seen several really nice sporters made off the action. Not my cup of tea exactly but the craftsmanship was first rate and the gun utterly reliable.

The whole point of custom rifles is give the buyer what he wants. A rifle that is not commercially available otherwise. Knocking someone's choice of actions is well, childish.

Vapodog, thousands upon thousands of hunting rifles were built on the SMLE action in England right up to the beginning of World War II. Most were .303 British, a few, from BSA, were 8x50R Austrian. Many of these rifles were highly finished, fully engraved, with fancy wood. And a parade of express sights. They were used hard in Africa and India and most of them are badly cordite burned today. If you come across one in good shape, it is a prize.

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
Vapodog, thousands upon thousands of hunting rifles were built on the SMLE action in England right up to the beginning of World War II. Most were .303 British, a few, from BSA, were 8x50R Austrian. Many of these rifles were highly finished, fully engraved, with fancy wood. And a parade of express sights. They were used hard in Africa and India and most of them are badly cordite burned today. If you come across one in good shape, it is a prize.

In my lifetime I've seen one very nice sporter like this in 303 british...nicely done, checkered and well finished. I was impressed with the craftsmanship!

Further I wouldn't doubt that thousands were made to sporters as it's the "30-06" of the British empire and were available as a base for very little after the war.

I also know of folks trying to sporterize the Mosin Nagent and most abandon ship when they see the costs!

Here's the original thread start statement.

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I know little, ok, nothing about what actions are the ones to look for for a custom gun

I doubt seriously if a single poster on the AR forums would recommend a "enfield #1 mark 3 made in 1918."

I'd be willing to bet that Echols, Burgess, Burns, Miller, Kobe, etc haven't done 1% of their work on these actions in the last twenty years!

To tell slim buttes that the enfield he described is a good action for a sporter is just plain wrong.....it's been done and a few nicely so.....but not to be recommended to a rookie as he proclaims. One can still get Mauser rifles for under $100!

Well said vapodog! I can claim the fact that my first moose was shot with one. I borrowed it from my older brother. I stand behind my statement, "It is CRAP!"

I built this No 1 Mark 3 into a 45-70, but it is a lot of work and to pay to have it done would be very expensive.

Here is a BSA #2 Sporter ca. 1910. It belongs to a forum member who was gracious enough to let me measure some things and photograph it. I now have my studio set up and will take better pics of it over the next week.

I am building a couple of very high end rifles on Enfield actions. Another gunmaker friend of mine is also in the process of building an even higher end rifle on the Enfield.

BUT...we are the only 2 folks building serious rifles on this action that I know of. I look at them like the Ross project mentioned here earlier this week. They are really cool projects recreating historically significant firearms, but they sure are not for everyone.

i have read in several sources that more game has been killed around the world with the .303 than any other cartridge, with the .30-06 being in second place. I know of no way anyone could come close to backing that up with statistics, but believe it to be true given the length of service of the Enfield and .303, and the incredible reach of the former British Empire.

Very historical, but again, not for everyone.

That's a pretty good looking rifle you got there Rolland!

Here is my "customized" Enfield. It is a #2A(308), from Ishapore, India. Barrel and forestock was bobbed 7", and all of the hardware was reset.


Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Here is my "customized" Enfield. It is a #2A(308), from Ishapore, India. Barrel and forestock was bobbed 7", and all of the hardware was reset.


Keith

You gonna checker it, or leave it like it is?

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Originally posted by Westpac:
You gonna checker it, or leave it like it is?

I believe that would be like trying to put lipstick on a pig.

It's just not worth the effort.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
You gonna checker it, or leave it like it is?

I believe that would be like trying to put lipstick on a pig.

It's just not worth the effort.

Keith

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
I believe that would be like trying to put lipstick on a pig.

It's just not worth the effort.

Keith

Don't be so quick to rule that out, I've heard about ya alls pig hunts.

Hey, Hog Killer, I've seen that rifle before. I saw it chained to a little Indian guy who was guarding the Taj Mahal when I visited there.

No kidding; rifle had a length of old rusty wire chain through the tirgger guard and wrapped around the guys waist with a padlock securing it. Did you have to cut him in half to get it?

FN Mauser Sporter, 270 Win., Douglas "Air Gauge" barrel,double set triggers, German style riflestock by NECG featuring side panels, schnabel forend, mullered border checkering. Metal finishing by Doug Turnbull. Scope bases by Gene Semillion. Zeiss "Diavari" 3-9x36. $4400.00 photo
http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/index.html?FNSporter.htm~maindeal

Someone PLEASE show me a picture of an SMLE #1 or #3(not lee speed) that looks as nice as this


there's a couple FN mausers for sale on griffin and howe.
http://www.griffinhowe.com/riflemoreinfo.cfm

including a "Griffin & Howe - Mauser - .270 Win caliber - $3,650.00 "

even a lowly "Husqvarna - Mauser - .30-'06 caliber - $750.00 " which is made under contract by FN ...

Now, now...They're not crap - they're just different. And because of their split rear bridge and removable magazine, they're difficult to sculpt into a fine custom sporting arm. Different, but definitely not crap.

I own a couple and I would probably part with several of my Mausers before I would part with my Enfields. Few of my Mausers cycle as smoothly or fire a cartridge as easy on the shoulder as the .303 SMLE. And, from an out-of-the-box surplused standpoint, none of my Mausers can touch the accuracy of my No. 1 Mk 3* either.

Don't get me wrong, I like my Mausers - a lot in fact - but don't dog Lee-Enfields for being different. They were designed to fight wars and shoot people with and they have served extremely well in their intended role since the 1895. However, they just don't make good sporters because no one uses open sights anymore and its hard to scope them and hide their magazine. They just don't look right wearing XX grade walnut.

Consider this: if the SMLE rifle was designed with a solid rear bridge like the Mauser (that lent itself to scope installation) and had a larger front ring so every garage crank could re-barrel them to the latest whiz-bang super magnum, would we even be having this discussion?

Slim,

Sir, having built several Mausers and rebuilt two Lee-Enfields, I humbly suggest that you keep looking. Try and find a VZ-24, 98/22, 24/47, or some similar surplus Mauser action. You'll find more parts and better information available for the standard model 98 Mauser action than probably any other surplus action available and a reasonably low cost to get into one. The problem with a Mauser though: once you start spending money, its hard to stop. You will do best to research what you want and write down your goals. That way you'll know when to call it good. If this is to be your first sporter, you might even want to consider locating a pawnshop sporter and if the scope holes are drilled properly, restocking it and having someone reblue it for you just to get your feet wet. You can find some good ones that are drilled and tapped and the bolt handle modified if you look hard enough and for less that you'd imagine. Then if you're satisfied, you can do what the rest of did which is invest $$$ in tools, books, parts, actions, etc. and go hog wild building rifles. It gets addicting sometimes...

Ackley showed several Enfields by Epps in Canada. Believe it or not they looked good.
A nitpicker would say that they are MKIII, or IV not Enfields. The last enfieldswere used in the Civil war.
Good Luck

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:


even a lowly "Husqvarna - Mauser - .30-'06 caliber - $750.00 " which is made under contract by FN ...

Talk about pigs .... that is the ugliest beech stock I have ever seen on a Husqvarna, surpassed only by the G&H price tag.

Wish I still had some pictures to show folks, but I don't.

When I came to the U.S. from Canada in 1981, two of the rifles BATF would not let me bring into the 'States (because they were ex-military, dontcha know?) were a G&H U.S. Krag sporter, and a Rigby Enfield sporter....both fabulously beautiful rifles. The Rigby was nice enough I traded it for a Sako Safari-Grade .375 H&H & a fistful of pictures of President Grant, both of which I COULD bring here.

Anyway, I would not recommend an Enfield action for sporterization by a person without well-developed specific preferences in rifles, so they would know what they were going to end up with...a beautiful, wonderfully functional sporter, with little retail market if they ever wanted to sell it.

Also, no matter how nicely customized, they are usually not really the cat's meow for the handloader as brass life is shorter than with a front-lugged action generally.

But junk? ABSOLUTELY NO WAY in my opinion. Properly done, by a skilled workman or group of workmen, they can be great rifles for looking at, and for daily use.

If I could have brought mine with me, I'd still have it.

I believe that Tex21 summed it up best.

Dave

In 1879 Lee took it to Sharps who saw no future in it...famous last words. The originals had one piece stocks, and could be made to look very nice. As far as the two piece stock design the brits dreamed up...fugly is being charitable.

Rich
DRSS

I have been thinking about a 405 win on a No.4 action .Just might do it on a P14 what do you guysw reckon.

quote:

As far as the two piece stock design the brits dreamed up...fugly is being charitable.

my first and long-time impression of the rifle was "only the English could cook something like this up"- then as time passed and I learned more about it, the fact that the buttstock came in three lengths and can be readily changed out (right at the wrist where a stock will crack, and LOP can be accommodated), and headspace can be corrected with three sizes of bolthead, I more and more appreciated it.

the 45-70 in the pic is great an example of what can be done with it, the same in .303 would be nothing to sneer at either.

something similar using off the shelf aftermarket parts could be approximated- not as fine an example, of course, but certainly something to enjoy owning.

If you want to save a bunch of time and money I have a Golden State Arms MkI sporter that they sold right before WWII. Really nicely done and $200 + shipping.

The Enfields make very nice looking sporters as shown in the Lee Speeds. If the clip loading bridge is removed they are even better looking. I would like to find a nice Lee Speed that I could afford. One of the other forums has many pictures of them in various grades that I would be proud to own. They were well recieved, and used, in Africa and other parts of the British Empire I have read. Some are indeed of the 'Best' quality.

quote:

One of the other forums has many pictures of them in various grades

Could you point me in that direction?

I'd like to take a look-see.

Thanks.

I would like to but don't actually know what the rules are about other forums on here. Don't wish to upset anyone. Just search for Lee Speed and you will find some nice rifles built by some good companies. Have actually never heard where the term Lee Speed comes from. The rifle shown by Marc has every appearance of a Lee Speed. Some were sold by Army-Navy and were in various degrees of finish, at least the ones I have seen were. They are sometimes encountered on the various auctions. I would like to have a really fine one but just don't want to pay the price. Ones I have seen in Very good to excellant were over $1000. They were rarely brought back as souvenirs as they were allies weapons and they were rarely imported after the war probably because they were still in use and only in recent years have they hit the market in any numbers. After a little research into the name Lee-Speed I believe they are the commercial version of the Lee-Enfield from about 1900. They were made by Birmingham Small Arms and are marked on the reciever Lee-Speed. Speed was the designer of the action I understand. The various models of Lee-Enfields were used for over 60 years by many governments as their basic rifle. Any way you look at it it's an impressive rifle with a significient history. I believe John Patterson used a Lee-Speed to take the Ghost and the Darkness.

I too always wanted a Lee Speed but not finding one I though I might try to replicate one or at least close to one.
This rifle was built out of parts left over from building up two rifles in 45-70. It has a military barrel and action I just cleaned up the receiver and eliminated the clip guide and welded up the holes and set the head space It shoots one inch groups. The stock is a reworked Boyt I glassed in. I still need to get it checkered.

That certainly captures the essence of the Lee-Speed to me. It is a quite handsome rifle any way you look at it. Beautiful work.

I have a really nice old P-14 Enfield [Remington] that has had all the hard stuff done Ears milled,guard straightened and such. Even drilled and tapped I believe. I was going to make a 500 something or other but never got around to it. If anyone is interested in a great project action make me an offer. I am not really in love with it anymore. P:ictures available at kailuacustom@msn.com
Aloha, Mark