Gentlemen,
Looking strongly at the HAAS TL-2 for high precision threading and chambering. I've grown weary of looking for a solid American made machine that is not worn out. Anyone have any hands on?
http://www.haascnc.com/details_LATHE.asp?ID=319#CNCLatheTreeModel


Regards, Matt Garrett
Chesapeake, Virginia

I don't know that machine, but it looks lighter than anythng I'd probably want to use for really precision chambering. Also, I would never use ANY three jaw chuck for truly precision work.......it is important to be able to center the work in the chuck to less than .001" and that just isn't normally in the cards for 3-jaw chucks. Maybe a six-jaw set-tru, but ordinarily 4 jaws are used for all the affordable easy centering chucks I've run across. Three-jawed chucks aren't.

That lathe weighs about 4500 lbs.
and cost about 30,000.00

The chuck can be changed to a 4 jaw. I like Haas, but the headstock is a bit long to chamber through the spindle. Between centers wont be a problem with the 48" model.

If I had the coin, I would buy the 13"x48" Southbend or something on that order.
Good 4 jaw, muzzle flush, steady rest, aloris tool post, and carbide tooling.

Matt,
HAAS makes some awesome equipment at a fair price. We tend to use there larger slant bed Lathes and are looking at a Boring Mill. That being said, "A true craftsman is a person, not a machine". Chucks, Tailstocks, Followrests, Tool holders, are all changeable and/or adjustible in some way or another. Buy a quality peice of equipment, then LEARN that equipment untill you can make what you need. It sounds easy enough, yet somtimes it's not.
Good luck, Doug

I have run that exact lathe while in school several years ago and actually looked into purchasing one. Money was the deciding factor for not doing so. The HAAS cnc is slightly more complicated to me than others I have run, but with some knowledge it wouldnt take long to become profecient. My advice is, that lathe will do everything you want to do and probably alot more. Might take more barrled actions to pay for it than other lathes. I agree with doug "a true craftsman is a person not a machine" but a good machine sure does make life easier.

Wade

Buy a M300 Harrison if you want a very nice lathe to gunsmith with. You can chamber in the headstock with it. You will have to stay busy to justify it. I think the Haas, a very nice machine, is not as well suited to gunsmithing as some other lathes.
Butch

My brain is already programmed to operate a manual machine for one off jobs.

For the cost of a Haas I could probably scrounge up a good enginelathe, a 2nd op Hardinge and a used CNC that would provide a lot more versatility than the Haas.

Gentlemen,
I appreciate the input. I've been looking for a Leblond, Clausing Colchester, etc for the last five or six years with modest luck. All I have to show for it is a HUGE Monarch that a friend of my fathers gave me a couple of years back. I'm not writing the Haas off, however, I will contiue to look. I see two Leblond Toolroom Lathes on Ebay as well as an M400 Harrison... Damn I hate to buy used without having a lathe expert go over it from stem to stern...

Regards, Matt Garrett.

AC
that lathe is far more rigid than you might think at first...; look that the bed, it is a tube, not a sheetmetal... it's a structural frame.

matt,
it can be run in manual mode, MPG, conversational(i think haas calls it intuitive), and program (load gcode). *MY* problem with this machine would be powering it, as my shop it limited to 12amp of 3phase, and even the tl1 requires 25amps.

the bore is HUGE, tl is nearly 2.3, and the tl2 is like 3"

becareful with haas machine orders, though, as lots of things are "options" that aren't in a manual lathe... iirc, the tailstock is "optional" along with a color monitor.

very nice machine, and anyone that knows how to run a cnc can run this one.... and with a runout in the .0001s, a 4 jaw should be all you need to perfectly align the bore for boring bar chambering

jeffe

Matt,

There have been a number of 13x40 clausing 2500s come up for sale. They came out of a big auction and most of the big machine tool dealers have one or more. I personally helped move one of these for a gunsmith friend that was bought locally and it is in great shape. It actually is the perfect compromise to me for a gunsmithing size lathe. They have taper attachments which will be a big plus if you turn barrels. Make sure if you look that you get one with a steady rest. You can chamber in the headstock also. I have been thinking about buying one for myself. I do all my work on a 17 inch Mori Seiki but I have to be creative when chambering, I just don't want to give up the precision for a lighter lathe to chamber with. I have looked a lot lately and you just can't get what I consider a full size machine that will allow you to chamber in the headstock. If your not worried about that I would look at a whacheon. You can find the clausings at CW Wood Machinery.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
AC
that lathe is far more rigid than you might think at first...; look that the bed, it is a tube, not a sheetmetal... it's a structural frame.

Yes Jeffe, the tube bed is likely to be strong for its weight. Guess I am spoiled by having access to MUCH larger and heavier engine lathes than that...though I don't generally use them for my own rifles.

For barreling/hambering, I see no need to spend the money for all the electronics of the CNC. An X-Y DRO (digital read-out) would be handy, but a guy can get a good aftermarket one of those, to add to a small (13x40) engine lathe which comes without one, for about $600 additional if he shops around.

I also like heavier chucks than a 10". Looking at the specs for this machine, I forgot to observe how big a chuck it will take, and whether it is D-4 or D-6 mounted, or a thread-on. Personally I would like a machine with a bigger chuck, if I was gonna spend that kind of money....which I wouldn't for a machine intended primarily for barreling.

(Let's see.$30,000 for the machine,divided by $225 labor for each barrel-fitting/chambering...that's 134 barrel jobs just to pay for the machine with no options, no delivery, and no tooling, wiring, or power. What am I missing here?)

Actually, if I wanted a nice tool in that price range for general work around the shop, and wanted a CNC machine, I'd probably start with a CNC mill rather than a lathe anyway.

Best wishes, and thanks for your courtesy in the wording of your response.

AC

AC,
I left the same way, on the cnc lathe or mill.. and retro fitted a hurco KM1 (basically a bp series 1 varispeed) to PC control.


when they put in the "waterplant" a block or so away, i can get a bigger lathe!!

Jeffe- Here's a thought for you and any of the other folks who may find a way to position themselves for it:

I have a friend/neighbor who was somewhat familiar with many of the industrial areas in the NE U.S. (He was raised in the New Haven area.) During the last major manufacturing business downturn, he nosed around and found some of the companies which were planning on downsizing their machining/manufacturing operations.

Then he went in, found out who would be in charge of selling the various "surplused" equipment and had some chats with them. By making some offers, he bought a LOT of equipment...everything from 14'-bed engine lathes and even larger, to six humongous large Cincinatti mills, that kind of thing, some of them brand new and never used. (The new ones had been bought for contracts which were never won.) And he paid, on average, about 8-cents per pound (scrap metal) prices for them, by weight.

Then, he looked around and bought a well-used local semi and set of doubles, hired some out-of-work local riggers, and got it all loaded. Had a friend with a CDL drive it here. Had local riggers unload it all and sold the truck locally for more than he paid for it back east.

So now he has an 80x60 shop full of very nice equipment worth probably millions of dollars at retail...much of which he doesn't even use as he has way too much of it. (He also had to put in an overhead crane to move the stuff around in the shop as he occasionaly still buys more.)

Anyway, as he only does stuff for himself and friends, it is a really nice toy store to play around in.

Might be able to pull off something similar to that yourself. It requires some effort and some time, but certainly paid off well for him.