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Argentine 09 & Brazilian 08 Mausers
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
I hear lots of talk that these are two very good actions for custome rifles...

Why? I am a rookie when it comes to this Mauser thing.


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Mike,
The biggest draw for the Argentine 09 is the bottom metal. It is hinged and saves you a bundle over custom bottom metal. Both are excellent actions to modify.


Chic Worthing
"Life is Too Short To Hunt With An Ugly Gun"
http://webpages.charter.net/cworthing/
 
Posts: 4917 | Location: Wenatchee, WA, USA | Registered: 17 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Chic,

Two questions?

1. Once the bottom metal is replaced on a Brazilian then it is for all intents and purposes teh equal of the Argentine?

2. What makes these actions good for custom guns?


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I know little about Mausers as well. That said, I have two 1909's that I picked up in a pawn shop for future customs. Upon very close inspection I found that there are zero machining or tool marks anywhere. Just glass smooth finishes on all internals. The bolt just glides and cycles beautifully. I have fiddled with a couple of other 98's that do not even compare in this regard.
 
Posts: 1580 | Location: Either far north Idaho or Hill Country Texas depending upon the weather | Registered: 26 March 2005Reply With Quote
<allen day>
posted
The Mauser 98 system simply can't be beat in terms of function, quality, simplicity, or reliability. The 1909, in particular, is beautifully machined and extremely well-made, but the 1909 is also a soft action and needs to be properly rehardened, or you will likely experience lug set-back. Most Mausers need to be rehardened in my opinion, which is the tip of the iceberg and leads into the real bottom-line, fundamental issue that you need to look at very hard before you move forward.

The worst aspect of building on a Mauser 98 is getting the action reworked properly. What starts out as an inexpensive action can get very, very expensive very fast. That's the fly in the buttermilk, and you really need to work with a top metal specialist if you want to get everything right -- someone like a Mark Penrod, Tom Burgess, etc.

In the honest, realistic, final analysis the Mauser 98 does not represent a good bargain-basement, cut-rate alternative unless you're willing to go sort of half-a$$ed and finish with a rifle that isn't as good as a solid, contemporary factory rifle.

But if you're willing to invest in the proper amount of work by the right people and really do it right, you won't be disappointed, and you'll end up with a rifle that'll last for generations.............

AD
 
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For what it takes to turn these fine Mil-Surp actions into sporters (dollars) one can find a post war FN in a JC higgens or other mfr rifle and use that action as a project action for much less.

One can actually use a M-70 action for less.

Probably the finest project action today is the MRC action. For about $450 it's all ready to go.

No one will argue that a properly done 1909 Argy or VZ-24 or the like can make a fine action as it can. It can also turn out to be worthy of the trash can if not done properly.

The idea that one is going to have a cheap and high quality hunting rifle using a '98 Mauser is totally misguided. If one wants a cheap hunting rifle just buy a Savage.


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
<allen day>
posted
Vapo, compared to most converted Mauser projects I've seen, I'd rather have a Savage any day of the week.

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quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:

2. What makes these actions good for custom guns?


Design and availability. Also the plethora of aftermarket parts available for a Mauser is second to none.

I disagree that they need to be re-heat treated. That is bosh. Perhaps some of them but they are the exception rather than the rule, the germans used a very effective case hardening process that yeilds one of the best actions in terms of metal quality that you can get. Many magnum class cartridges have been made of the millsurp M-98's for decades, but it is true that an awfull lot of cash can be dropped into putting together a good custom Mauser. Some of that can be offset by someone who is willing to do some polishing themself and by setteling for something like a buelher or timney trigger type saftey as opposed to a model 70 type saftey.

A good three position model 70 saftey and a good quality hinged bottom metal alone can cost nearly as much as some other actions, hence the attraction to the Argentines.

A lot of people have gone to the Charles Daly Mausers for a low cost Mauser. They are a good value but have some shortcomings of their own.

Specific cartridge selection is also something that can greatly effect the cost of a well made custom mauser as they need quite a bit of machining to get something like a belted case to function properly. But Ive found that any '06 class case can be made to feed fairly easily, and the shorter 308 or 56-57 mm Mauser cases work wonderfully with little or no alterations.

When done up right they are simply the most well made, reliable actions on the planet. Just compare the entire bolt assembly to any other action and you can begin to see why.
 
Posts: 10189 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001Reply With Quote
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Chic, Wstrnhtr, & Boxhead;

Thanks for answering my question...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I wholeheartly agree with Allen and Vapodog on this issue. I love old mausers done right, the rub is "done right" its spendy.

There was a day, that these actions could be bought for 15-20 bucks, machining costs were cheap, and gun nuts like me should have been in hog heaven. Times have changed, machining costs are 8-10 times higher today, and the actions cost 10 times more.

There are a few old military mauser models I get excited about, but they are few and far between so to speak, all were manufactured after 1935 or so ( heat treating issues were resolved by then), and small rings 98's of any flavor spark immediate interst on my part. The Brno's, select German models ( very picky on years as war production guns sucked ).

The advice previously given on getting a post war FN is spot on, way cheaper in the long run. The gun guys in the 1950's don't know how good they had it, FN actions could still be bought NIB, Win Model 70's were still in production, Sako actions were available and cheap. Hell even Brevex actions were available and relatively cheap by current standards.

Fast forward to today, there are simply better options to start building a custom on. Its cheaper in the long run to go buy a used CRF Model 70, a montana rifleman, or a CZ. You will be many dollars ahead.

Too bad Charles Daly miised the mark so bad on this, they got about 80% there and screwed up. Another manufacturer that is hurting for certain and is capable is the old BRNO ( not CZ side), they are still trickling out commercial versions of the VZ-24's if these were readliy available I would snatch one up in a heartbeat. I see in my gun digest there is a distributor in Pahrump Nevada for these, but the couple of times I have tried to contact them I didn't have any success, something I plan on following up on one day when I get the time.
 
Posts: 1486 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 28 May 2004Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
I disagree that they need to be re-heat treated


I can speak from experience here, I built a 1909 into a 30-338, it didn't get 20 rounds through it when it set the lugs back, my smith completly went back through it at on his dime, the barrel needed setting back a couple of threads, it needed heat treating, plus all the trueing and lapping all had to be redone. TIme was my penatly on this it took a lot of work to straighten it back out.

Somewhere recently I read how D' Arcy Echols works on these, and I figure he has forgotten more about gunsmithing than I will ever know. Ignore the warnings on the heat treating if you want, but I will never put together another modern high pressure round on one of these and not heat treat, $40 bucks on the above rifle would have saved me a lot of grief.

Edit: buy the time I got that 1909 done I had serious regrets I had ever funded it, in the end I am happy but if you had talked to me 10 months into the rework I assure you my tune was considerably different.
 
Posts: 1486 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 28 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Guys,

This isn't issue of cost...I have a 1908 Brazilian.

That is what I am using...the machining is free...I want a milsurp...the purpose of the rifle is to please me...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of TC1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
That is what I am using...the machining is free...I want a milsurp...the purpose of the rifle is to please me...


Simply put and well stated.

Terry


--------------------------------------------

Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
 
Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Guys,

This isn't issue of cost...I have a 1908 Brazilian.

That is what I am using...the machining is free...I want a milsurp...the purpose of the rifle is to please me...


Both the -09 and -08 amusers (argy and brazil) respectively will make excellent sporters. IMO the difference is the hinged floorplate on the Argy.

You asked what time it was and we told you how to build a clock....sorry about that.


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Vapodog,

No problem...I enjoy your posts


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
Mike,

Also sorry for the hijack. Your Brazlian is a good candidate, for a custom mauser. What are you planning on chambering it in?

If you pay attention to Ray A posts I think his favorite rifle is his 338 Win mag on Chilean mauser. My 1909 when it got completed is one of the jewels of my hunting rifles, so yes the effort is worth it in the end.

Are you looking for 09 bootom metal or are you going custom?
 
Posts: 1486 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 28 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Going to use the Numrich arms bottom metal and chambering in 376 steyr


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
Mike,
Heat treating an 09 Argenine is totally worthless. Heat treating will redistribute the carbon molecules in a metal matrix. The 09 was made of softer metal with very low carbon content. If a person surface grinds an action or laps in the lugs, it is advisable to recarburize the action. That is a different process than heat treating. That will add carbon to the surface and give some surface strength to the action and be would more than advisable.

The brazilian would make an equally good rifle, given someone with some experience doing the work. I am sure you have that guy lined up.


Chic Worthing
"Life is Too Short To Hunt With An Ugly Gun"
http://webpages.charter.net/cworthing/
 
Posts: 4917 | Location: Wenatchee, WA, USA | Registered: 17 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Chic,

Would you recommend re-carbonizing the brazilian also?


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by allen day:
Vapo, compared to most converted Mauser projects I've seen, I'd rather have a Savage any day of the week.

AD



Okay, that's just down right mean spirited.

Mike, to answer you actual question, the receivers, other than crest, both represent the highest (imnsho) state of the military mauser and are EQUALLY as good as a famed "mauser banner"

Something that always bugs the hell out of me is preaching to reheat treat... when what is MEANT is to anneal, harden, and temper. There's far too much "dialog" on the 1903s that were "reheat treated and therefore brittle"..

Yep, I've seen some bubba'ed to hell mausers out there, that it's a wonder the owner brings them out of the cellar... and the same can be said for remingtons, winchesters, and the nominal "oh hell" of a 1917...

and then there's the other 95% of things.

Failure mode on a mauser, assuming that lug setback is a majority of those failures, is a LOW probability at best..

like saying "failure mode of a capacitor is to POP with a radical discharge" without stating "... this happens once every 3.35^1024 hours

jeffe


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 40121 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
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Customsox,

I have gotten in the habit of clicking on bylines lately. Thats a nice 280 on your website, very pretty.
 
Posts: 1486 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 28 May 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Heat treating an 09 Argenine is totally worthless. Heat treating will redistribute the carbon molecules in a metal matrix. The 09 was made of softer metal with very low carbon content. If a person surface grinds an action or laps in the lugs, it is advisable to recarburize the action. That is a different process than heat treating. That will add carbon to the surface and give some surface strength to the action and be would more than advisable.



I'll start a new thread.


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
 
Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Alf,

You heat treat any of yours...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
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Alf,

Thanks...by the way...glad to see you back posting....i trust you are on the road to recovery...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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One request and two questions ALF:

Could you post some close ups of the action area on your 404(s)?

What type/brand of scope mounts are you using on those rifles?

Want to trade five Remingtons for one of those Mausers? (rhetorical question, obviously)

lawndart


 
Posts: 7158 | Location: Snake River | Registered: 02 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
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Thanks ALF,

Your "backyard/shadetree/blacksmith/gun mechanic" knows what he is doing.

I'll check on those lynx mounts.

lawndart


 
Posts: 7158 | Location: Snake River | Registered: 02 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Alf,

I always like seeing pictures of your rifles.

Do you have a closeup of the quarter rib and sights on the 404? Inquiring minds are working on 404 details.
 
Posts: 1486 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 28 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
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I like that rib on the 505. Wonder if that would work on a H&H profile?

Is the rib on the 404 engraved or stippled? Or is it just the photo?
 
Posts: 1486 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 28 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Alf,
I'm mulling the notion of a .500 Jeffery on a 1935 Mauser banner action. How many rounds does the mag hold? Where did you get it? More pictures of the feed rails if you please.

I'v been warned that feeding is the biggest single problem with this type conversion. Would you build another? Any thought you might have on the subject would be appreciated.
Good health, good hunting.
Tom
 
Posts: 219 | Location: Spring, Texas | Registered: 03 October 2003Reply With Quote
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Alf,

Just curious, what kind of groups do you get from your 8X57?

Love the 500 Jeff! Nice Mausers!
 
Posts: 10189 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
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