We all have heard (or I guess most of us have heard ) many of the names in the Custom Gunmakers Guild and the Firearms Engravers Guild, and also of the many other grand old men (women?) in the custom gunmaking trade. Some are gone but still stick in our minds, like Allen, Ottmar, Brownell, McKenzie, and many others.



And then there are the old names like Biesen, Burgess, Fisher, Miller, Kline, and many others, including many who post on this site.



But who are the up and coming artists in both the custom rifle field and the engraving field. Who are those names that are yet relatively unheard of, but are doing absolutely fantastic work.



One often hears it said that in order to be successful in the art collecting world one has to buy the artist before the artist becomes famous. Who are those firearms artists that have yet to become famous and really deserve a look.



If you have a website for the artist please post it.



Blue

I'm not sure of who all's out there who's young and good, but of those I've seen, Joseph Smithson is the best. He'll be a houshold name someday, wait and see!

AD

Jeese Allen.



I can tell from your posts the you are intelligent and articulate in the circle of hunting arms. But, when I see the term best used it immediately disqualifies the user, in my mind. There is no such thing in reference to gunmakers or engravers. The work is just too eclectic and the term is too subjective. From your posts I understand that you have guns from some of the best makers available. You are in the enviable position to look at, shoot and admire the firearms from these folks. However, unless you are in the business of building these rifles I don't consider a person an expert in the field. At best, one can be an informed consumer. That's not meant to be a derogatory statement. In fact, I hold your opinion in fairly high regard. But please, enough with the best, fastest, biggest etc. It denegrates all of the other people you haven't mentioned and there are many, many qualified up and comers.

Roger, point made- so how about naming a few artisans, that in your opinion, could make this list?

Sorry Sheister. I stay locked up at my engraving bench slaving away day after day.

I tend to work with more established craftsmen, so I don't really know who the up and comers are. Not that I wouldn't work with gunmakers who are trying to become known. It just doesn't work out that way.

What part of Washington State are you in? I'd sure like to drop in and see some of your work if I am in the area.- Sheister

I live in the Olympia area.

Write me an email if you decide to come by. I will send you the specifics.

Scrollcutter

Engravers talk?

It is clear from Mr. Day's language that he was referring to the best that he had seen, rather than the universe of "up and comers", and as such, he is certainly entitled to be subjective just as you are entitled to use the words "in my mind" which may be objective to you but are certainly subjective to everyone else.

You claim there is no such thing as "Best" in reference to gunmakers and engravers. I have stacks of magazines here from many years, and many of them have ads from gunmakers advertizing "BEST QUALITY" work. Objective to them (e.g. the best they can do) but certainly subjective to everyone else.

You then go on to state that there are many many qualified up and comers but two posts later you state you don't know who they are.

I, for one, very much enjoy Allen reporting his experiences here, and I have not read one thing he has written that denegrates anyone.

Blue

Roger, I certainly didn't mean to get you upset. Perhaps I should have said that of the young, up-and-coming riflemakers whose work I've seen, I LIKE Smithson's work best! Just like the other day on the No. 1 thread, I mentioned that Penrod's No. 1 metalwork was the best I've seen, I meant that with all sincerity. Of course, I haven't seen everyone's No. 1 work, either.......



I don't build rifles of course, I just hire guys to build 'em for me, then I take those rifles hunting. I don't have 'em built for the sake of stylin' and profilin', and I never will. If they're pretty, that's fine (sometimes!), but they have to perform first.



I'm not qualified to build rifles, but I am qualified to shoot and hunt with them, and I hunt a great deal. I've noticed that really astute custom riflemakers are very attentive to customer feedback. The client may not know anything about building rifles, but if that client hunts extensively, he can provide valuable insights (insights that can ONLY be gained in the field) that the riflemaker can and should use to create an ever-better product. The gunmakers who think that experienced clients don't know shinola or aren't worth listening to are making one big, huge, stupid mistake in my opinion.



I hunt with Echols-built custom rifles a great deal, and D'Arcy is continually asking me what I like or don't like about a specific rifle - asking what he can do to make them better. And this from a riflemaker who shoots an unbelievable amount of ammunition through a great many rifles all year long, plus guides hunting clients and hunts extensively on his own. He'll even go so far as to call up out of the blue and ask me to send a certain rifle back for some new modification he'd come up with to make it even better - usually something I would have never thought of in the first place, but the improvements, no matter how small, are always worthwhile. This is the sort of professional who earns my trust and my loyalty.



AD

Allen:

Thanks for your reply and I agree with much of what you said. I don't mean to be touchy. My vexation comes from 20 years of comparisons made by unqualified tire kickers. And, for clarification, I am not refering to you.

Some really good "young" artists whose work I've seen include Scott Green (Idaho), Mike Ullman (Colorado), Ralf Martini (British Columbia), Kelly McNitt (Oklahoma) and Robert Schuck (Texas). It's nice to see more folks taking up the quest and what's especially nice is the current state of the art is the best ever, IMO.

Blue
I'm not sure if you have the acumen to distinguish what is clear or unclear. You don't seem to be able to grasp the idea that when I write "in my mind" that is a qualifier that I am stating that my observation is subjective.

I don't have to know any up and comers to know that there isn't any best in the bunch. My point was; there are so many aspects to gunmaking or engraving that there can be no best. If you are having trouble comprehending the posts, perhaps you should put your father on the computer so he can explain things to you.

You have been stirring things up around here for some time now. For myself, ( another qualifier meaning that I am not suggesting that others should do the same) I think I am done messing with you. By the way, didn't you mention you were going to go away for a while.

Quote:

---

Mr. Kehr

I will be the first to admit that I am far from perfect. Much of my personality comes from my job, which, at times, can be very unpleasant. Perhaps I should leave the board for a few months and give everyone some time to cool off.

On another note, I visited with Mr. Sampson this past week. He will be teaching a 1 week class later this summer that I am thinking about taking. Not because I want to become an engraver to engrave for other people, but rather because I would like to learn how to make scratches in some knife handles, etc. I watched the tapes put out by Lynton Mckenzie and the Gravermeister people, and read the Meek books and other books. But I think I need to have a guy stand over me in order to get me started.

I will close this note by saying that I think that you have always been very gracious with me and have always answered all of my questions. I admire your work immensely. I wish you well. And I thank your for pointing out the flaw in my character on the board.

Take care.

Kevin

---

One more subjective observation:

You seem to have a severe sycophatic disorder.
Have your daddy explain that to you as well.

Mr. Kehr

You can dish it out, but you can't take it can you!

I certainly have no trouble comprehending your posts. When a post is written by someone with a mental capacity of a person in the first grade It becomes quite easy to understand.

For awhile there I thought you were going to be okay, but you are turning into one of the biggest assholes on this site.
Some sort of "I am better than though" complex.

You have advised me that I have gotten "out of line" on other posts, and then you come back and do the very same things you accused me of, you damn hypocrite.

There is no doubt that your work is good, but your attitude is piss poor. I think you are the one with the disorder(s)and maybe you should have your children explain them to you.

Blue

fla3006

Sorry to post my nasty gram behind your post.

Blue has been running off at the mouth and I had to explain "how the cow ate the cabbage" to him.

Again, I apologize.

Scrollcutter

This is my post, asshole, and I certainly don't need any explanations from you. Rather, I think it is you who needs some explanations. Your a dink, and every one here knows it. That is the explanation you need.

Blue

Blue,
The phrase is:
Better than thou .

How old are you, really? 15 or 16?

Scrollcutter

I don't mind saying I am 51. How old are you, asswipe?

Blue

Attorney?..........Please, give us some credit.
Haw, Haw, Haw.

Scrollcutter

Engraver???? Maybe somebody else is doing all of that work you pretend to have done. Must be, becasue surely an asshole like you couldn't do work like that.

I heard that you were an actor. Somebody said you tried out for Dumb and Dumber and was turned down for being so dumb.


Blue

Hey Blue I heard you tried out for Dumb and Dumber! haha couldn't resist

Blue:

Your insights are astounding and I might add you seem to be a very witty child. About half.....

By the way, the word is spelled "because". Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

I would not qualify Joe Smithson as up and coming. I think he is there and has been for some time. It just seems that no one knew who he was. He seems to have emerged from what ever cave he has been hiding in . He does incredible work. We just seem to take comfort in "discovering" these people. Jim White from Alaska is as good as Smithson from the work of his I have seen. He is also an accomplished engraver. Another discovery. One of those sumbitches that can do it all. I know another one of them from Olympia.

As far as up and coming, the name that comes to mind is Stan Tobasco. He graduated from Trinidad in 1999 and worked for a while at Rigby in California. He is back in his native upstate New York but I heard he is looking to move back west. He does exceptional work, both in wood and metal and is a very nice guy to boot. AND he has the most amazing handle bar moustache I have ever seen. It looks like it could hurt you. Not a qualification, just an observation.

Scrollcutter

I don't worry about how I spell when I am writing back and forth with assholes.

You have some nerve to come on here and complain about "20 years of comparisons". Who do you think you are, some kind of engraving god or something. You should know that any artist that puts out the work does so in the full knowledge that anyone and everyone has a right to comment on it. People may not be qualified to comment on how you sharpen your gravers or how you hold the handpiece of the gravermax or gravermeister, or whether you use chinese white or beeswax for your layouts, but they certainly are qualified to know what they like, and they certainly are qualified to compare your work with anyone elses work and comment on the differences.

Your head must be so fat that I don't see how you can hold it up over the engraving ball.

Howard - Hello. Hope you are doing well.

Blue

blue, Roger is one of the finest people I have ever known, both as an individual and as an craftsman.

You, on the other hand, come across like a fart in a diving helmet. And it is no wonder you do not make much money at your "profession". The gunmaker wanna be. You are a twit. A useless zit on the ass of humanity. Not because you profess to be an attorney but from the person you have become. If you think you are garnering respect on here for your stupid remarks you are deluding yourself, which seems to be a major occupation of yours and one that likely will pay you a lot more than fiddling with the law.

Now just piss of you and try your hand at a site like www.dumbshits.com. I am sure they were made just for you and will welcome you with open arms.

Blue:

Was that as swipe or asswi'pe. Your vocabulary is phenomenal. Surely, it's possible to come up with better than that. You are an educated man, right?

Here is your chance to say something very clever as I won't be responding. You are quite boring and I've had enough of your rambling gibberish. Good night.

Customstocks

I kind of figured your big nose wouldnt'be far behind in this deal. What did Kehr do, call you up and tell you to come on in? Who will be next?

I could care less what you have to say about this post. It has nothing to do with you. So go crawl back where you came from. Or stay if you want to and say what you want to. This isn't between you and I.

Scrollcutter, you come on here last night and point out that I was a bit rude. I go back and read my posts and acknowledge that I was rude and I apologize for it. Then, when someone else has been rude to me, you support them. To me that is hypocritical, and assinine.

And then, when you have nothing good to argue about, you throw red herrings into the mix in an attempt to either change the subject or drift off course from the true argument at hand. You like to talk about my profession, but you don't like it when somebody tells you something about your profession. Your an asswipe.

Blue

blue, no one has to ask me to come on here and no one did. You on the other hand are still a worthless twit and always will be. No one will support you in any argument because your miserable personality. You have accomplished nothing in your life and your attitude shows it. The rest for you will just be downhill. You have the respect of no one and never will. Now did I make myself clear??

Asinine, idjit.

Sorry I couldn't help it.

You also seem to have a limited execration vocab as well. Come on BOY, you can do better than that!

Now, I gotta say I am a little befuddled here at some of this. Now this here name callin is expected from ME as I am sorta a red neck hippie truck driver but it seems to me that You, blue came to this site in a big uproar over a few of us callin that dickweed over at HA a LDMM and how that could be slander and such.
Now in one of your post you want a Guy to suck your Dick then you call Mr Kehr an Asswipe I sorta of feel left out.

Jimmy

I will say the same thing to you that I said to Howard.
Hello. I hope you are doing well.

Customstox - All I can say is that if Mr. Kehr is the nicest guy you know, that does't say much for you, does it?

Scrollcutter - Hypocrite!

Blue

Blue:

Finally, a correctly spelled word. A bit repetitive though, wouldn't you say.

SCrollcutter

Isn't it past your bedtime?

Blue

blue, as you caustically replied to someone else, you need to put on your spectacles. I said "Roger is one of the finest people I have ever known", not the nicest guy I know. It is a fine distinction nontheless, but if you knew him it would reflect well on you or anyone else. You will never have the priveledge of being his friend and that does reflect poorly on you. And nothing more needs to be said.

Blue: The pure intellect you are exuding is absolutely......sluggish.

Don't feel bad Roger he used that same line with me when he ran out of things. He somehow thinks that my age disallows me to be knowledgeable on the subject of custom guns. I however don't let my mouth override my hardware much like him. It's amazing that at the age of 51 he doesn't know his head from his ass in regards to custom rifles. While he has me in age it's quite apparent that he's been sitting in front of the computer too long with his pants down to his ankles

-Mike

Quote:
Mr. Kehr

I will be the first to admit that I am far from perfect. Much of my personality comes from my job, which, at times, can be very unpleasant. Perhaps I should leave the board for a few months and give everyone some time to cool off.

On another note, I visited with Mr. Sampson this past week. He will be teaching a 1 week class later this summer that I am thinking about taking. Not because I want to become an engraver to engrave for other people, but rather because I would like to learn how to make scratches in some knife handles, etc. I watched the tapes put out by Lynton Mckenzie and the Gravermeister people, and read the Meek books and other books. But I think I need to have a guy stand over me in order to get me started.

I will close this note by saying that I think that you have always been very gracious with me and have always answered all of my questions. I admire your work immensely. I wish you well. And I thank your for pointing out the flaw in my character on the board.

Take care.

Kevin
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Scrollcutter

Was this a private message or an e-mail sent to you?

PM

Alvinmack

I know more about custom rifles than you have every forgotten. I don't have to make custom rifles to know about them. And I sure as the hell haven't seen anything from you that was worth shit. All you know how to do is run your mouth off.

Blue

Idared

It was a private message, and was based upon last night. In retrospect, I should have never sent it. Moreover, anyone who prints private messages on a forum is a prick, plain and simple.

Blue

*** You are ignoring this user ***