trying to get ahold of John regarding my rifle but unable to contact him,is he still in the gunbuilding business?

John Is shutting his shop down. He's got one of my guns and has gotten to the point he won't return my emails either. Don't know what to tell you.

Terry

he built a 338 lapua for me and all loads stick in it. i guess i had better bend over and take it somewhere else

quote:

I guess I had better bend over and take it somewhere else

Be careful you don't really get it stuck!

Sorry. Couldn't help myself. I did try, though, for what it's worth.
Anyway, did you have a custom reamer ground for a specific set of brass, or is this just a standard Lap reamer?
Sad to hear he's not returning his emails, but bear in mind, he'd go stretches without returning mail even when he WAS making guns. Hang in there. This guy is rock solid. I have faith he'll square up with everyone, even if in his own sweet time. (But you might have found that out about him long before sending guns to him.)
I luckily yanked mine out of his shop before succumbing to the desire to let him finish pressure testing, feed work, etc. Just last spring. Judging fron what many have to say, he has his own time line.
Hopefully he'll pop up here soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana-be:
Hang in there. This guy is rock solid. I have faith he'll square up with everyone, even if in his own sweet time.

This is not MY definition of "Rock Solid". If he's closing down shop, Step 1 is to promptly return customers' deposits, parts and guns. Holding another's property and not answering their correspondence borders on larceny.

"His own time line", might land him in jail.

I haven't heard from John since he emailed me about what sights we had agreed on for 404 Jeffery projects.

I haven't personally talked to him in over 6 months. I think he is working away from his home. Just trying to give him a chance to finish it or call me and tell me he can't.

I have't heard from him in over six months. He's building me a 450 Dakota on a CZ action. Last email I received included a photo of the stock blank but nothing since. Sure hope he gets it together.

I have to go along with ForrestB on this one. I am sure all of those with guns with Mr Ricks have a sizeable investment involved with the firearm and the deposit and maybe the wood blank.
To me, it all boils down to a mans word and trust, your only as good as your word. Shutting down his business has nothing to do with not completing these several projects in a timely matter. Lack of any contact by e-mail or phone is even worse.
Good luck to all of you that have projects with Mr Ricks

Personally, I'd get in the truck and go pay him a visit, and make him fix it before I left for home. If you don't you're likely to eat your investment.

We've had at least one gunsmith around here who got in the habit of not returning e-mails, dodging, ducking, playing games, doing sloppy work, etc. Then he disappeared for good......

AD

As much as I would like both the rifles that John is working on completed, and sent to Scrollcutter, I'm trying to understand that John is probably dealing with issues that we don't know about.

As far as I know he has not made off with anyone's funds and failed to deliver a project.

Now, I know he's slow with completing projects and delivery, However the only thing he hasn't done is return phone calls and emails.

I'm not trying to defend him, just trying not to lynch him either.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
As much as I would like both the rifles that John is working on completed, and sent to Scrollcutter, I'm trying to understand that John is probably dealing with issues that we don't know about.

As far as I know he has not made off with anyone's funds and failed to deliver a project.

Now, I know he's slow with completing projects and delivery, However the only thing he hasn't done is return phone calls and emails.

I'm not trying to defend him, just trying not to lynch him either.

Well said Rusty...
jeffe

Rusty, would you go 6 month's without hearing from your investment broker?
It appears that there are maybe 6 projects from here on AR that no one is hearing anything from Mr Ricks. A damn poor way to conduct a business, a phone call is cheap

Jimmy,
Yes it is a long time and no you and I wouldn't do that. Like I said, not trying to defend him.

I'd be past of the point of playing nice-guy by this time. If e-mails aren't being returned, phone calls aren't being returned, work isn't getting completed, etc., a prudent man should be wise enough to see this situation for what it likely is.

EVERYONE has "issues" to deal with in life, and I'm certainly no exception, but those issues should NEVER be allowed to get in the way of your professional obligations. If you let whatever you're dealing with personally get in the way of a regular eight-to-five job, you'd be fired, pure and simple. If I let life's challenges get in the way of my business, I wouldn't have a business anymore and would be hunting work.

If you let this slide and take a passive position, in six months you'll STILL be left holding the bag. Make book on it.........

AD

I'm with Allen on this one. I went through an eerily similar situation with another gunsmith that used to post on AR. My distaste for confrontation caused me to "give him the benefit of the doubt". In hindsight, I should have pushed the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Personally, I'd get in the truck and go pay him a visit, and make him fix it before I left for home. If you don't you're likely to eat your investment.

We've had at least one gunsmith around here who got in the habit of not returning e-mails, dodging, ducking, playing games, doing sloppy work, etc. Then he disappeared for good......

AD

Allen, meaning on AR or around Dundee?

AH,

I think Allen means on AR, because we had one exhibit the same symptoms.

I think it must be a syndrome, and pretty soon the liberals will be pushing for a federal program.

I have been in John's shop when he was still working, and he had a lot going on. I decided to go somewhere else with my project, but if you are not happy it is time to ask for adult supervision. Failing that, call BATFE.

jim

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:

EVERYONE has "issues" to deal with in life, and I'm certainly no exception, but those issues should NEVER be allowed to get in the way of your professional obligations. If you let whatever you're dealing with personally get in the way of a regular eight-to-five job, you'd be fired, pure and simple.
If you let this slide and take a passive position, in six months you'll STILL be left holding the bag. Make book on it.........

AD

Well said. I've been left holding the bag twice with rifles I sent out to have work done. Both said they were having health problems. Had either one made a attempt early on to let me know I may have been more open to working out something that would work for both of us. Neither did and I had to turn the screws on them to get my stuff back AND some money on one of them as well since some of the work they did just plain sucked hind tit and I had to get it re-done. I will never again send out anything to any Smith that I can't deliver the product to personally. I realize that isn't always a option but I think finding a good local smith and sticking with him is the best thing most people can do.

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:

EVERYONE has "issues" to deal with in life, and I'm certainly no exception, but those issues should NEVER be allowed to get in the way of your professional obligations. If you let whatever you're dealing with personally get in the way of a regular eight-to-five job, you'd be fired, pure and simple.
If you let this slide and take a passive position, in six months you'll STILL be left holding the bag. Make book on it.........

AD

Well said. I've been left holding the bag twice with rifles I sent out to have work done. Both said they were having health problems. Had either one made a attempt early on to let me know I may have been more open to working out something that would work for both of us. Neither did and I had to turn the screws on them to get my stuff back AND some money on one of them as well since some of the work they did just plain sucked hind tit and I had to get it re-done. I will never again send out anything to any Smith that I can't deliver the product to personally. I realize that isn't always a option but I think finding a good local smith and sticking with him is the best thing most people can do.

I had similar experiences experiences in the 1970's. Two ended in bankruptcy with no recovery except getting the part back. One ended with a refund and no work done, but I could rebook the work at the new 5 year later price.(Fat chance!) One took aver 3 years to pay back a little at a time for a Mag Mauser action he "lost". (Got the wood back) Two of these were big name guys written up in Gun Digest articles and etc. I drove to their places so that is no guarantee either. Another one (metalsmith) took my $145.00 (remember1973$) for a pre-64 short mag action, then claimed it split when he was taking the .264 barrel out of it. No money, no action, wouldn't return calls and I previously done business with the guy for actions!
It comes down to the man or women not where they live or whatever. It's whether they will do as they say and when.

quote:

This is not MY definition of "Rock Solid". If he's closing down shop, Step 1 is to promptly return customers' deposits, parts and guns. Holding another's property and not answering their correspondence borders on larceny.

Forrest is right. I entrusted John with a project in 2002. We agreed on the scope of the project and a time frame. Early on, he assured me that things were moving along, then stopped answering emails and telephone calls. When I was finally able to reach him, he admitted that he had done no work on my rifle over the previous five months, despite his earlier assurances that he was working on it. He did ship my rifle to another smith who did the job.

I would strongly advise you guys with projects pending with John to do whatever is necessary to get your guns/parts/money back rather than hoping for the best. If you follow the latter course, I wouldn't bet on a happy ending.

It is always sad when a person hears another one of these stories about a well known smith. I regretfully have to agree that I would do what I had to do to get in touch with the person. Is he just not answering the phone at all or not returning calls from his voicemail? For that matter does anyone know for sure he is even around on the peninsula at the present time?

Good luck to all who still have projects with him and I hope things work out well for you. But, like Allen says, I fear you will need all the luck you can muster.

quote:

It comes down to the man or women not where they live or whatever. It's whether they will do as they say and when.

That is certainly true enough. But if they are local, especially in small communitys they have more incentive to maintain a good reputation. Plus if it ever did come down to a case like this it would be much easier to recover my goods. I would be very wary of letting any smith continue to work on my stuff when he's getting out of the trade. I think I take it back the minute I learned of it regradless of the state of it's completion, especially after threads like this. I wish everybody the best of luck.

I really don't think it's as bad as some are asserting. I did get an email from him about five-six weeks ago saying he would have mine done in about 4 weeks (it still isn't). He said he was back logged with his construction business which entails a lot of out of town work and had six guns to finish before he shut the shop down. I honestly think he's just burned out on building guns and I'm not the least bit worried about getting the rifle back.

Are all the delay's bad business? yea, I think so. I don't think any of it is criminal though. John isn't taking on any new work and told me he wants to finish the jobs he's already accepted before he closes the doors.

After dealing with Scott Green (IdahoRifleman.com) I can tell you what a crocked gunsmith is all about!

Terry

Lighten up guys. I dont know Ricks personally but it sounds like he is just behind and trying to stay afloat. He hasnt robbed anyone. Lets not lynch him yet.

I saw Scott Green displaying some of his wares at the Dallas Safari Club in 2004 and his workmanship was first rate.

TC1 what kind of problems did you run into?

boy, i guess i opened a real can of worms! i'm not as bad off as the people that he still has rifles from at least i got mine,now i have to find someone to fix it!

quote:

I saw Scott Green displaying some of his wares at the Dallas Safari Club in 2004 and his workmanship was first rate.

TC1 what kind of problems did you run into?

Scott Green skipped out of town in the middle of building a rifle for me and he ran off with everybody's money. After that his wife was told by her divorce lawyer that anything left in the shop she was entitled to auction off. Luckily I was able to get in touch with the man that owned the building Scott leased space in. He was able to find my parts and the very large deposit I had put down on the job. Also lucky for me, the deposit got there after he left town or I would have been out of that completely. He boxed the rifle up with instructions for Mrs. Green to send it back C.O.D. After 2 weeks I called him back because I had not received the rifle yet. That's when he told me about the divorce lawyer and said he was out 2 rifles and 2 months back rent, but because he felt like what was going on over there wasn't legal he wasn't going back. He assured me the rifle was boxed up (he did it) and ready to go. He gave me scott's home phone#. When I finally got in touch with his wife she explained because it was a firearm she couldn't send it back (she had no idea there was an extremely large deposit check in the box). I told her if she didn't send the gun back I would call the BATF and the Idaho State Attorney Generals office and file a complaint! Then she wouldn't have anything for her upcoming auction. I told her to run this by her lawyer and get back with me. A day later I get a call from the man that owned the building telling me that she dropped the gun off at his house and that he would mail back to me. He only ask that I send him a check to cover postage once the rifle made it back. About a week later the gun arrived and I sent the man a check for $100 and a nice thank you note. I told him to take his wife out to dinner on me for their trouble they went through to gey my rifle back. About a month later I got a very nice letter thanking me for the Red Lobster dinner. They said that myself and one other person were the only ones to get their money or rifle back and the rest were auctioned off. I also have an open invitation to go stealhead fishing should I ever make it up to Blackfoot, ID.

The man does nice work but has no morels.

Terry

Terry,
i was thinking of this when we talked about this 2 weeks ago...

if scott had an ffl, and the rifles were in his book, and they were auctioned off (as the owners were KNOWN), seems that this is theft, and the batfe should have been made aware of it.

i would think that "loosing" X number of rifles, in "one day" from his book would be an issue. would hate for an inspector to come see it

jeffe

Yea, I'm sure some of it was very illegal. What you got in the above post was the readers digest version. There were a lot of things that just didn't make sense. The guy who helped me out, told me he was in the shop one day when people came in and asked for guns back in person that he knew for a fact were there. Mrs. Green told them "Sorry, I don't have that one, it must be with Scott." Not that it's an excuse for her behavior, but I was told Scott emptied the bank accounts and left her high, dry and unemployed The whole thing was sorted and very fatiguing. I lost a lot of sleep over it and got some gray hair.

As far as the BATF and Scott Green goes. I bet he's tending bar or flipping burgers in Mexico and doesn't care either way. It just amazes me why people do the things they do.

Terry

Terry, when did all of this take place? Scott built a set of custom bases on an '09 for me a few months ago. It took a couple of tries to get them right, but I got everything back in good order. Reading of your experience, it makes me feel like I dodged a bullet.
Forrest

Forrest,
Was Scott Green the guy who posted on this site and displayed the nice looking CNC bases for rifles?

All this happened about two months ago! Yes, I think you were very lucky! All in all I came out OK myself. When it was all said and done the only real loose was shipping, a large tip, some gray hair and a nervous twitch I still get when I think about it. But...I almost lost my rifle on the auction block! One of the members here on AR sent me an e-mail telling me things weren't right with the IdahoRifleman and I needed to get concerned real quick. He was right. The bad part was I had already sent him my gun and a very large deposit (dumb on my part, I know) and I had just bought an outragously expensive stock blank from Dressels and was about to send that too.

It must have been one hell of a woman,,, or drugs.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Forrest,
Was Scott Green the guy who posted on this site and displayed the nice looking CNC bases for rifles?

No, That was/is Michael Sherz. I've done buisness with Michael before and had great results. As a matter of fact the rifle is at his place now.

Terry

Wow... I wonder if scott green was fleeing from a Psyco,wacko,monster, Evil woman.

This woman got a lawyer and auctioned off customers property?? Sounds criminal to me.

Right on. There's some laws regarding balement that protect people with guns in his shop. I'd think her lawyer would be aware of that. If I had a gun there, I'd be all over someone for it back, along with the deposit.
Don

Wow. No guns AND no morels. That REALLY sucks.

Mr Ricks does not like to hear about his time line and lack of communication from his mere stupid customers. When I finally got through to him, and told him time had run out, no more load develepement, or "thinking about" the reloading dies, he sent the rifle back, but he took his own sweet time, like a pouty spoiled little kid. He worked up load and strain guage data, using up an extra six months of my time, and won't send it back, even with the SASE I sent him. I lost a set of new Warne scope rings I sent with the project, not a big deal.

He's a real likeable guy to visit in his shop. Obviouslyhe is one great machinist, and I've seen and worked with a lot of great machinists over the last 50 years. Some things on the gun project tells me he is a real good gun machinist, but a half assed metal smith/gunsmith, gun mechanic. Or he just does what he likes to do, and is highly interested in.

Perhaps the gunbuilding is more of a hobby, subsidized by the clients. Perhaps that is why he doesn't run it like a business.

What got me is the extreme arrogance of his not communicating to his customers who have trusted him with their guns and very expensive parts. Like "I've got your stuff and tuff s--t if you don't like doing it my way, or dancing to my tune" Or maybe he thinks of himself as some great white primadonna gunmaker who doesn't have to stoop to answering the dumb yokels e-mails and phone-calls, or listening to their concerns.

Who knows. His web site looked impressive, and his AR posts sounded good. Sucked me in. I got what I had to pay for. I would have liked to have paid much more and got all that I wanted done, done, and done right. Wayne

fwiw,
I'm sorry to hear of you folks having trouble with Mr. Ricks. The only thing I can say is that the Model 70 in .375 H&H he built for me turned out beautifully. It was not a quick build, however, I'm more than satisfied with the work and his attention to detail(and I'm picky;-). I hope for everyone's sake this issue gets ironed out as soon as possible...

Best Regards, Matt Garrett
Chesapeake, Virginia

quote:

Originally posted by walex:
I lost a set of new Warne scope rings I sent with the project, not a big deal.

Walex,, I think not returning your parts Is a Big Deal ! ! Maybe your sick of trying to get ahold of the Dude and just glad to get back part of your stuff.

Man That sucks.

GSP7 Yeah you are right it does suck, but it's not as big a deal as what some of the others with complete guns and stocks and what have you, stuff I seen there myself in Ricks shop, stand to lose if there's a horror movie ending to this sad tale. stand to lose.

I think the suckinest part of this sad tale is the total betrayal of the trust his customers have placed in him. A good deal of that trust was built up by the comaraderie (SIC?) built by exchange of postings on this forum. He was a trusted likeable member of the tribe, so to speak.

Worst of all, he's shattered a life long deeply held conviction of this old fisherman that all the flakes and scoundrels of the business world were fish-buyers. That hurts.

Wayne