I have a chance to trade a win model 94
xtr for a 7.65 mauser. I have shot the mauser it has been sporterized nicely.
chrome bolt turned,handle,decent stock,hinged
floor plate, drilled and tapped,single stage trigger. All numbers match,the cal is decent but i was thinking about rebarreling it for a different caliber.


serial # is F88xx and looks new and is tight.


what do ya think?

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. M94's are a dime a dozen. Unless it's a pre 64, they aren't really worth a whole bunch. Done right, Argentines make into nice sporters. I'm working on one right now in 257 Roberts. You can always pick up another M94 down the road sometime.

quote:

i was thinking about rebarreling it for a different caliber.

WHY?

Thats a really decent balanced cartridge. Can be used all the up to elk/moose. I don't own one now but almost any origianl mauser caliber I have a soft spot for, but that is one of the better. Just as good as any .308, at least to a game animal. If it shoots good I would consider leaving it that way.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:

quote:

i was thinking about rebarreling it for a different caliber.

WHY?

Thats a really decent balanced cartridge. Can be used all the up to elk/moose. I don't own one now but almost any origianl mauser caliber I have a soft spot for, but that is one of the better. Just as good as any .308, at least to a game animal. If it shoots good I would consider leaving it that way.

Ditto roger

Unless you're really attached to your 94 I'd trade in a heartbeat.

As others have said the 7.65 x 53 is a much better cartridge than a boring 308 (but not as good as a 6.5 x 55 or 7 x 57). It's hard to think of a cartridge that is significantly better for killing reasonably large mammals.

Another nice feature is that the stock barrels tend to be of excellent quality. I've got a calvary carbine that has seen it's share of use and not the best bore, but it's still amazingly accurate.

Personally, I'd rather have the Model 94......

AD

What mauser action is this rifle? Many 7.65 were done on model 91 actions. If this is the case I wouldn't be looking into at rebarreling to a higher pressure round. I would research that a little before I decided to trade, as I wouldn't consider this a real desirable action, and certainly not if I wanted to rebarrel to a more modern round.

I don't have my mauser book around but some of these were also done in model 93 and 95 actions if I am not mistaken. This would be more interesting, but I would need to look over the rifle very carefully and would retain the original chambering.

This were pretty much all contract rifles Turkey, Bolivia, Argentina, Peru. I would check and see what country the action was made for. Some like the 91 Turkish, your probably better off with your Model 94 WInchester.

If this a 1909 Argentine rifle that has been properly sporterized I would jump on it though, these are real nice actions. But remember the 1909 actions are pre quality heat treating, and tend to be soft, workmanship is top notch though. If your going to rechamber to a high pressure round heat treating is highly recommended.

Here are a couple pics of the more desirable DWM 1909 action. If it is one of these. Yes, I'd trade in a heart beat and never look back.

All the 1909´s are regular 98´s. The 91´s are another kind of action and not suitable for high pressure modern cartridges. By the way, with suitable bullets for, say the .303 British, you can reload your 7.65 to an intermediate between the .308 and the 30-06. We had very good accuracy with 180 grains.
Regards

Just some info, years ago someone was importing the 1909's and running a 30-06 reamer in them. They did not do a particularly good job, finish-wise, they let the reamers get dull. I bought a couple of them in pawn shops, just for their actions. One of them had an excellent bore and it headspaced good, so for the hell of it, I loaded up some 220 gr. RN Hornady's. At 100 yds. it would consistantly shoot 3 shot cloverleafs. I was amazed that it would shoot that much of an undersized bullet so accurately.I really felt bad about taking that barrel off, but the shoulder area of the chamber was very rough and hell on brass. Just thought I would share this.

I like these a lot despite there softeness, I am most of the way through a .404 Jeffrey project on a 1909 and have it re-carbourized/heat treated. It has come up a treat. So I would jump on it as well.

quote:

Here are a couple pics of the more desirable DWM 1909 action. If it is one of these. Yes, I'd trade in a heart beat and never look back.

TC1 that is the exact same action but reblued and the bolt release lever has been loped off and a scope put on it.
Even the wording is the same it looks new and
is super tight.From the wording it looks to be German made,but I dont know that much about mausers or any thing about there serial numbers this one is #88xx.
By the way i did trade this afternoon it also has an old Redfield 4x Bear cub scope on it,
and came with 200 once fired norma brass so that will save me a bunch of time and trouble.
Now I just need to get the dies and bullets.
will .311 diameter shoot well enough or will I need to hunt down the .313?

anyone with aproduction date idea?

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
anyone with aproduction date idea?

Its a 1909 Argentine. WWI started in 1914. Only a five year span it could be built. Argentina certainly started domestic production in the late 1920's.

The production date is between 1909 and probably 1912 as I don't remmber seeing anywhere this was a long contract.

cal30 1906, I think you probably made a pretty good trade.

PC, That looks like it's going to be a very nice rig! Who did the bases?

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
cal30 1906, I think you probably made a pretty good trade.

PC, That looks like it's going to be a very nice rig! Who did the bases?

Terry

Terry all the metal work is being done by Bob De'Vries of Kudu Services, he has done all of my gunsmithing to date and I am wrapped to have him do my work.

PC,
That is beautiful work. Keep us informed during the stock work.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
PC,
That is beautiful work. Keep us informed during the stock work.

Thanks Custom Stox,

sorry cal30 to

I suppose I just wanted to illustyrate why you need to make that swap

That number can be the original or not. Many of these arms if not all of them have a military origin and their numbers were often changed by gunsmiths in order to sell to civilians. Furthermore, before sending the guns abroad there was an order of milling off the Argentine crest. As far as I know, in many cases that was not accomplished. The order was a big one, I believe that some 250.000 guns were bought.
Good luck with your project.

quote:

That number can be the original or not. Many of these arms if not all of them have a military origin and their numbers were often changed by gunsmiths in order to sell to civilians. Furthermore, before sending the guns abroad there was an order of milling off the Argentine crest. As far as I know, in many cases that was not accomplished. The order was a big one, I believe that some 250.000 guns were bought.

Mine still has the crest and has not been milled It has a 2 piece scope dase on it (weaver) so only the rear base was milled.
other than the holes in the reciever it is really clean.It was also drilled for a peep on the right hand side but i cant find a listing for a peep that will fit this gun.
I prefer peeps on the older guns.I think they look better on them.


I just ordered some 180 grain bullets and some dies today.

Here is some photos of my 1909 DWM. I traded M1Tanker two coon hides and a 10lbs of spuds since he is from Idaho I also told him that a man has been on the moon. He was shocked when I told him that.

[IMG]
]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/323/100_0074.jpg[/IMG]

I thinking about having a 7mm Gibbs built on it.

That is a clean one also,I would like to rechamber mine in something that hits a bit harder up close.A.35 whelan or something that hits as hard up to about 125 yards.

Right now it is the 7.65x53 mauser cartridge
and if I did not have so much brass for it
and the barrel was shot (which it isnt)
I would, but it shoots to good to mess with.


ya got any more of them there spuds? ?

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
That is a clean one also,I would like to rechamber mine in something that hits a bit harder up close.A.35 whelan or something that hits as hard up to about 125 yards.

Go for a 10.75x68....little or no mods to actio and almost .404 ballistics, I would have near done that over a .404 I reckon.

These actions in their original form did not have any bluing on them. Arsenal redos added that.

I have seen several that had the crest milled, or partially milled. Most that I have seen, had it intact.

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
I have a chance to trade a win model 94
xtr for a 7.65 mauser. I have shot the mauser it has been sporterized nicely.
chrome bolt turned,handle,decent stock,hinged
floor plate, drilled and tapped,single stage trigger. All numbers match,the cal is decent but i was thinking about rebarreling it for a different caliber.


serial # is F88xx and looks new and is tight.


what do ya think?

Don't change the caliber! Shoot it first, and work up some accurate loads! I have one that is completely as-issued (29" bbl.), except for having a scope installed. It is extremely accurate, even with .308" bullets! It will deliver over 2900 FPS with 165-grain bullets, and over 2700 with 200 grainers, due no doubt to the long barrel. Yet, it is slightly more powerful than a .308 due to a slightly larger case capacity.

Here's a group I shot using both Sierra and Nosler Partition 200-grain .308" bullets and the same powder charge with both bullets - MV 2720 FPS:



This round is worth reloading, even if you have to use .311" bullets. Sierra makes a great 180-grain PSP bullet for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
These actions in their original form did not have any bluing on them. Arsenal redos added that.

I have seen several that had the crest milled, or partially milled. Most that I have seen, had it intact.

So what your saying I should chuck mine in the trash can and then go whip M1 Tankers ass for trading me worthless action that has been reblued?

323. whip his ass and send it to me for proper disposal. It will not darken your door again. I have a breeding pool of them, blued and untouched.

PC - Very nice metalwork! Those are about the lowest scope bases I have ever seen. You should be able use the iron sights rather easily once the scope is detached.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
323. whip his ass and send it to me for proper disposal. It will not darken your door again. I have a breeding pool of them, blued and untouched.

Chic,
Thanks for your help. Just remember who will be leading who up in the mountains this fall!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Glen71:
PC - Very nice metalwork! Those are about the lowest scope bases I have ever seen. You should be able use the iron sights rather easily once the scope is detached.

Thanks Glen I am very happy with the work Bob has done on my .404.

M1 Tanker would you like to sell me a dwm mauser action it would most likely be a pain in the ass to get one to oz.

Chic

Thanks for that pic! I had my wife look at it to prove I'M NOT THAT WIERD

It is "normal" to have an action or two lying around the house!!

Mike

First time I've ever heard Chic called normal

Jeff

Thanks for all the advice on this one!
I finally got to shoot it at 300 yards and it shoots very good considering it is over 93 years old.


I had NO problem hitting rock the size of a 3# coffe can at this distance with it.
Amazing what an old nearly obsolete cartridge can do compared to todays cartridges!
Just goes to show the only real advancment we have made has been with newer powders
Damn considering I dont care for the .308 Win
Im kinda proud to pack a round that was designed in the 1890-s that could actually
kick it ass

Howdy.. which bullets did you use .311 or .313?

If anyone DOES reduex one of these to a high pressure round, or load original to about 308 pressure, it's a darn good Idea to have them reheat treated..

jeffe

quote:

Posted 18 July 2005 16:08
Howdy.. which bullets did you use .311 or .313?

.311 Remington round nose