quote:

Originally posted by exsanguinate:
i want to get my remington 700 SA rebarreled, and i have been communicating with a smith close to town. there has been alot of back and forth email regarding the project. initially, his replies were the same day. now it takes him several days to respond. either he is too busy to answer my emails, or he thinks i am a tire knocker

Here's a good example of where the perspective of the customer and the gunsmith might vary and be a source of friction. The customer might be thinking, "I'm buying a $300 barrel, paying a gunsmith $200 to install it, then maybe I'll have to pay someone else (or do it myself) a pretty penny to change the inletting and blue the barrel." The customer is thinking in terms of a several hundred dollar project and he wants to convey his hopes and dreams to the gunsmith.

Now the gunsmith is thinking to himself, "This is a $200 rebarrel job, and if I spend more than 30 minutes total on the phone or computer with this customer then I won't make any money on the order."

exsanguinate, I don't intend to pick on you or put words in your mouth. I hope you don't mind me using your situation to illustrate a point. The point being that gunsmithing is a LOW margin business, but a high margin hobby. For the most part, we love to talk guns and spend hours dreaming about our new projects. If we include the gunsmith in all those hours of talking and dreaming, he's gonna go broke.

I dont mind a small amount of chewing the fat with a potential customers. Typically though things can get drawn out way to long for my liking. "Come on buddy.....whats on your mind....get to the point" is what I would like to say.....but dont.

As far as "tire kickers" go. I can tell you that for every REAL customer I get.....there are about half a dozen tire kickers who call. Ive learned to accept it but it IS irritating. Its really easy to get grumpy after a few phone calls like that. Particularly when the customer is pushy for a quote and more than likely has no intention of hiring you. Obviously you have to give them the benefit of the doubt but it can be difficult at times. I generally dont answer the phone if Im checkering or on the bench unless its a current customer. I return phone calls when Im done for the day. Seems to work for me.

Not in response to any preceding posts, the smiths I've found to be among the friendliest are some of the more well known/successful including Bowen, Echols, WFF Hein, Penrod. Maybe thats why their successful. Nobody wants do do business with a jerk. Of course my questions to them were legitimate also.

There has been a lot of good thoughts passed here from both sides. I always try to be very respectful of the gunsmith's time. Here is the dilema...how to communicate in the most efficient manner possible and still do it clearly. On my last project, I chose the internet and email. Knowing that this is not the cup of tea for a lot of gunsmiths, I knew it would limit my responses. So I limited my requests to smiths that I knew communicated through the internet, and I also was very patient in awaiting my responses. My thoughts being that the smith could answer when it was most reasonable for them, day or night, and I was very thorough about what I wanted since I have done this more than a few times. I didn't even give any price limits or expectations.

So I sent out several emails and even filled out two internet request forms, and I waited. Since there were a couple that I really wanted a price from, I sent those select folks another email. One was someone I had done business with before and one is a regular poster here. Out of those 10 emails and 2 internet request forms and a month of waiting for replies, I got exactly one reply from one of the internet requests. Two exchanges of email later for clarifications later my project was on the way to a person I have, still to this day, never talked to, nor met. Was I foolish??? Maybe, but the internet and email is the way of the future. The results were outstanding. I got the project back quicker than I had planned and it looks much better than I expected. I will see how it shoots when I get the stock finished.

Btw, here was my email:

quote:

Sir.
I am looking at Mauser project, as if I don't have too many now, and I was looking for pricing from you to do the metal work. I have purchased a Spanish 1943 mauser and am looking at making it nicer. Here is what I want:

1. 7x57 Mauser caliber
2. Octagon barrel with round chamber area and octagon to .550-.600 at muzzle like the top barrel in the attached picture. 22-24 inches long with a twist of 1:9 to 1:10. I do not anticipate shooting heavy bullets. Barrel maker is up to you, except not A&B, or Wilson. I really like the Montana Rifleman and Douglas barrels, but the pic is from Lilja and I know Badger barrels does octagon as well. I'm sure you know much more than I.
3. Install, chamber, square receiver, lap lugs, crown.
4. Weld on bolt handle. Plain and thin.
5. Two, or three position model 70 type safety and bolt shroud.
6. Drill and tap for scope mounts.
7. Polish all metal, I will be sending a drop floorplate/triggerguard as a part of the stuff.
8. Jewel the bolt, if you do that.
9. Could you do a gloss deep blue for me.

I will do all the stock work. I already have the semi-inlet mesquite stock for it.

Let me know what you think the price would be and where I could save some, if I drop my expectations some, other than in the octagon barrel (ok, even that).

exsanguinate

It wouldn't be a wasted trip to go to Helena. I can't assure a quick turn around time as they can be very busy but this is the time of year to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
exsanguinate

It wouldn't be a wasted trip to go to Helena. I can't assure a quick turn around time as they can be very busy but this is the time of year to do it.

my gunsmith probably thought i was a "tire kicker". he has sent me 7 emails since 12-19. he has been very patient with me with all my questions regarding choate stocks, what accurizing the reciever entails, do i really need a sako extractor, how much it would cost to open the recoil lug area (i was going to do the inletting), what it would cost to install a Badger Ordnance tactical bolt handle, what it would cost to thread and install a flash suppressor..etc..

he told me accuracy would probably be sacrificed with the flash suppressor. i then told him i would just have him cut my remington 700 VS and install the flash suppressor as a test. then i found out carbon/fouling builds up on the crown and it can't be cleaned unless the suppressor is taken off. also, if it is raining and water pools in the suppressor, it can cause fliers. so, i decided the flash suppressor is out.

well, i just emailed my smith and told him i'd have him do the complete job (even the inletting). it will cost a pretty penny, but i have complete faith in him. his speciality is long range rifles. in his shop, there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds. the rifle he used is a 7mm Allen Magnum which is a 338 lapua necked down to 7mm. he is shooting 200gr bullets with a BC of 1.

While not a frequent poster here or even a gunsmith, I have been doing business with them for well over 40 years. Good and bad, some with personalities that caused me to either leave and never return or endure because they were the "best" at whatever I wanted done. I had a very respected one tell me not long ago that he could not use his home gun club anymore because everyone knew who he was and what he did and wanted his time and advice for free. Good point; never thought about it that way before and will never B/S with a good gunsmith again without thinking about wasting his time.

quote:

Originally posted by exsanguinate:
in his shop, there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds. the rifle he used is a 7mm Allen Magnum which is a 338 lapua necked down to 7mm. he is shooting 200gr bullets with a BC of 1.

Was that prone, or, off hand?

quote:

. his speciality is long range rifles. in his shop, there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds. the rifle he used is a 7mm Allen Magnum which is a 338 lapua necked down to 7mm. he is shooting 200gr bullets with a BC of 1.

Is it April 1st already

quote:

there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds.

Obviosly measured by his wife!

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

quote:

there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds.

Obviosly measured by his wife!

“You just had to post here taking a swipe at someone didn't you. You truly are a jackass.“

Remind me again whose line that was??

quote:

Originally posted by fyj:

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

quote:

there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds.

Obviosly measured by his wife!

“You just had to post here taking a swipe at someone didn't you. You truly are a jackass.“

Remind me again whose line that was??

You must have simmered a while with that one as you can no longer recognize humor.

You're still a jackass I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

quote:

Originally posted by fyj:

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

quote:

there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds.

Obviosly measured by his wife!

“You just had to post here taking a swipe at someone didn't you. You truly are a jackass.“

Remind me again whose line that was??

You must have simmered a while with that one as you can no longer recognize humor.

You're still a jackass I guess.

Oooooooh, did I strike a raw nerve there Skippy?

I’m still waiting for you to post something (anything?) on this forum that has even the slightest connection to gunsmithing.

actually, the gun weights 60# and it goes from the case to the bench. he uses a swiss military range finder to range them in.

Looks like Rick got out of detox and came back as fyj?

Mind if we bring this back to gunsmithing, rather than jackassing?

jeffe

Maybe I am way off base but...

No one forces a gunsmith to take calls or answer emails if they dont want to, dont it is pretty simple.

Obviously the money is not the motivation for most to be a gunsmith. as far as I can tell few actually sell high dollar rifles...

Though on otherdays I would say many overcharge for an assembled pile of parts..

I think there are three factors, people skills, marketing skills, and artistic skills.

I can think of many who fall in one of those and a very few who have two let alone three.

If you want a remington action and a straight barrel there it little point in going farther than walmart.

On the other hand if you want a piece of art you can shoot - save your money and wait, thats what I am doing.

There are my worthless 2 cents.. see you in Dallas.

quote:

Originally posted by malm:

quote:

Originally posted by exsanguinate:
in his shop, there is a picture of a rock chuck shot at 2,871 yds. the rifle he used is a 7mm Allen Magnum which is a 338 lapua necked down to 7mm. he is shooting 200gr bullets with a BC of 1.

Was that prone, or, off hand?

For the first 2721 yards, the bullet was transported in the cab of a pickup truck, and then it was fired (out the window of course).

Jeff, I see you all, got the famous "moderator" hat back on again. Do you wear it just when you so choose? The reason I ask is due to "Your"post in the "Classified"sectio9n , which is "TOTALLY" "OFF TOPIC"
Take a look for your self


Posted Jan 10, 4:55 AM Hide Post
Scott,
Thanks ... mother family is lindsey and smith, from JB,.. went up to a family reunion (smith) some time ago, my grandmother and her baby brother where the only (born) lindsays there..

You know lonnie lindsay the ferrier, that's him.

debbie adkins (was ms ark some years ago).. that family too!!

small world...

I am from WM, myself... it's depressing to hear people call that a "tough town" these days... growing up, we didn't know where the house key WAS.

we band of bubbas
STC Hunting Club
http://www.weaponsmith.com
At some point the survival instinct kicks in. I think the 12 Ga FH can achieve that.-Robgunbuilder

At times, it is amusing to read "opinions", if only to recognize the experience of the poster

Why not take it to a PM?
I go to the classifieds to read for sale items, not about your family history...............

quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd223:
Jeff, I see you all, got the famous "moderator" hat back on again. Do you wear it just when you so choose? The reason I ask is due to "Your"post in the "Classified"sectio9n , which is "TOTALLY" "OFF TOPIC"
Take a look for your self

Well now Jimmyd223 did you forget to sign on as fyj this time? We all know that stands for F*** you Jeffe by the way!

Getting back to gunsmiths, exsanguinate, I don't know who your gunsmith is, but if he claims he killed a Rock Chuck at a distance of 2871 yards with a 7mm projectile, he might be blowing smoke up your ass. I would be careful dealing with anyone making such a claim. Are you sure it wasn't a picture of a Rock Chuck that was photographed (shot) at a distance of 2871 yards?

malm, yes back to gunsmithing
Any idea of what the hold over would have been. Even if the scope was dead on at a 1000, what the hell kind of scope rings would a guy need.

I have read that there are some confirmed kills at 1500 yards and then there is always the 1000 yard club but have never heard of anything close to 2871.

I, too would be looking for another smith

Sorry, duikerman I have enough trouble just being myself but I do like the "fyj"thingy

And...that rock chuck would have had to to be lying down and parallel to the bullet track to have been hit to present a bigger target. That bullet would have been falling almost straight down when it contacted the target, whatever it was. Believe me, I am not skeptical about this shot; it is simply bullshit.

quote:

Believe me, I am not skeptical about this shot; it is simply bullshit.

Jim,
I once hit a rock chuck from 2 miles. The projectile was a 1972 GMC 3/4 ton.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Jim,
I once hit a rock chuck from 2 miles. The projectile was a 1972 GMC 3/4 ton.

Chic, What's the B.C. on one of those?

In that case, I've hit an armadillo from 73,846,080 yards. (That's an odometer measured 41,958 miles)

quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd223:
malm, yes back to gunsmithing
Any idea of what the hold over would have been. Even if the scope was dead on at a 1000, what the hell kind of scope rings would a guy need.

I have read that there are some confirmed kills at 1500 yards and then there is always the 1000 yard club but have never heard of anything close to 2871.

I, too would be looking for another smith

Sorry, duikerman I have enough trouble just being myself but I do like the "fyj"thingy

jimmy,

I have it on good authority that certain people on this forum (jeffeosso, duikerman, etc) don’t go to football games because when the players go into a huddle they think they are talking about them behind their backs!

quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd223:
yes back to gunsmithing

Good answer, Jimmy, nice to see you are making progress. Can't say the same for some others....

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
And...that rock chuck would have had to to be lying down and parallel to the bullet track to have been hit to present a bigger target. That bullet would have been falling almost straight down when it contacted the target, whatever it was. Believe me, I am not skeptical about this shot; it is simply bullshit.

in 1967,Carlos Hathcock made a confirmed kill at 2,500 yds using a modified 50cal. This 50cal was not a precision rifle.

in 2002, Corporal Rob Furlong made a confirmed kill 2,657 yards from a McMillan TAC-50 Long-Range Sniper Weapon on a Taliban fighter.

why is it not possible to make a kill on an animal that is about the size of chest of a skinny VC or taliban?

BTW, i stand mistaken, the shot was 2,370 yds

exsanguinate, back in 62 as a youngin' me an my Daisy Red Ryder shootin' 4.5 grn BT's was huntin the local area for DG when we come upon a Dragon Fly, he made two fly by charges, almost hitting my trusty guide, we moved to the side and I took aim, touched off a round, said DF was hit hard but swooped to the right climbed and made a bomber dive straight for us. Taking aim, I touched off another round and all that we could see was "RED MIST" My guide admitted it was a 75 meter off hand shot that saved our ass from that charge.

quote:

Originally posted by exsanguinate:
[in 1967,Carlos Hathcock made a confirmed kill at 2,500 yds using a modified 50cal. This 50cal was not a precision rifle.

Yes, and the day before he'd been target practicing on the very same spot that VC happened to step out onto.