Who is a Good gunsmith for D/T job & bolt tig weld job on a mauser?

It has been my experience that a large percentage of people involved with the building of custom guns are a little on the rude side. Maybe it is because of all the tire kickers, but I know a couple have lost out on my business because of the way they acted on the first contact.

I really can't blame a gunsmith for being a bit cranky. His work requires decades of training/practice, intense concentration (interrupted by phone calls and tire kickers), and the pay is peanuts.

Spot on 500grains.

Out of lets say 30 phone calls or face to face talks, maybe 3-5 actually commit to having something done.

I think 'tire kicker' is a pretty accurate description of the average inquirer.

500 grains is rarely off the mark... Hell he only has to come close with all those grains (of wisdom!)

The problem is if you are not polite to all 30 you might miss out on some of those 3 to 5. They way I look at it is if you are going to be in a business to serve the public you had better not be a donkey. Discussing ideas with the tire kickers is as much a part of it as chambering a barrel.

I don't ride outside horses anymore for the simple reason that I can't stand people. My wife on the other hand loves to deal with the public. She gives riding lessons and rides their knotheads. I scoop poop and ride my own horses.

Just look at the number of childish and petty agruements that happen right here on this forum. Many of these folks that post here are in effect egomaniacs and talented ones but can't stand to have someone that obviously isn't as good post more frequently than they.

Ever wonder why they don't condemn someone for a poor reply when he has only 150 posts?

Gunsmiths are buttheads at times is all I can say.

I agree with Grains but there's more to it. These are often childish and petty people. Some are not of course but if 25% were it sheds poorly on the whole.

Gunsmiths are like any other person. If you are polite and courteous they will respond in kind....

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:
Gunsmiths are buttheads at times is all I can say.

I think 99.9% of us are buttheads at times.

GSP7,
I am going to take a shot at actually answering your question, which seems to have escaped everyone else.

The D/T is not a difficult task and I would venture you could find someone local to do it. Of course they can also screw it up in the process.

I have it from good authority that z1r does a great job on bolt handles. You might check with him to see if he is set up to drill and tap and I would venture with his milling skills he could do it in a heartbeat. He is in the process of moving presently though. Malm could also do it, I am sure. He is in Utah so that is not far once it is boxed up. Or Jim Kobe also.

Most of the people I would recommend are custom metalsmiths with a big backlog. I also expect that the young man I recommended will be recognized for the same kind of skill in the not too distant future.

The rudest person I have ever talked to was a famous maker of low profile 1911 sights when he was in West Virginia. I was wanting to buy a set of his sights but when he answered he was rude, annoyed and a downright jerk. I would never buy anything from him. Thanks...Bill.

I have to jump in here and have no intention of continuing this Hi-jack. I do D&T and I do bolt handles. With that said, I get up early and go to bed early. Some jerk called at 10:50 pm last night with some supid question I don't even remember. I told him to call back in the morning. Why does the average client feel the working man does not have a life and is open 24 hours a day?

I have dealt with several of the custom smith's on this board and have to say they have been great. Very helpful, did outstanding work and never failed to answer some of my foolish questions.
I think part of that lies with the fact of respect for thier time. Time is money and if I call and they are busy, I tell them I will call back or they can call when they are free.

I try to get as much of my work done locally. Fortunately I have a good guy to do my stuff close by. It makes everything a LOT easier. There are no shipping hassles and if something should ever go wrong I can work it out personally and not go through some of the long distance hassles often posted about here and other places. Surely there must be a decent Smith close by, I'd search one out.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I have to jump in here and have no intention of continuing this Hi-jack. I do D&T and I do bolt handles. With that said, I get up early and go to bed early. Some jerk called at 10:50 pm last night with some supid question I don't even remember. I told him to call back in the morning. Why does the average client feel the working man does not have a life and is open 24 hours a day?

Jim,

It's possible the guy was from the west coast. Time difference perhaps?

quote:

It's possible the guy was from the west coast. Time difference perhaps?

Pretty poor excuse I'd think.

Jim has done a fine job of asking for email and anyone that calls at 11:00 has really ignored the man's privacy.

I'd let the answering service take the call...why get out of bed to answer the phone at all?

To the original post:

I think the term tire kickers is very appropriate but it goes with the territory. Refusal to return emails and phone calls is just discourteous and I'd look elsewhere if this happened continuously.

Gunsmiths are all too human...most run good communications....like all of us...some don't. It's that simple! gain, if you can't communicate with the guy.....look elsewhere!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Some jerk called at 10:50 pm last night with some supid question I don't even remember. I told him to call back in the morning. Why does the average client feel the working man does not have a life and is open 24 hours a day?

I get calls at 1:00 and 3:00 am with people wanting me to come unlock their cars, or, open their doors. I tell them sure I can do it but it will leave a smoking hole.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

It's possible the guy was from the west coast. Time difference perhaps?

Pretty poor excuse I'd think.

Jim has done a fine job of asking for email and anyone that calls at 11:00 has really ignored the man's privacy.

I'd let the answering service take the call...why get out of bed to answer the phone at all?

To the original post:

I think the term tire kickers is very appropriate but it goes with the territory. Refusal to return emails and phone calls is just discourteous and I'd look elsewhere if this happened continuously.

Gunsmiths are all too human...most run good communications....like all of us...some don't. It's that simple! gain, if you can't communicate with the guy.....look elsewhere!

There's a pretty simple solution, get a seperate phone line and set it to the answering machine when you don't want to be disturbed.

I guess the really hard thing is telling the "prospective customer" a hole drilled in his receiver is 12.00 and listen to him whine. He doesn`t realize the cost of the tap/wear &tear AND the very real possibility of breakage. Then he gets really lit up when I tell him I won`t just drill and tap unless I have the bases there too. His OR mine. Makes no difference. I did this without the bases and ended up eating the $ because the guy says his bases won`t fit the new holes. ERGO! No bases no holes. Same with the bolt handles. HE supplies the handles as the ones I have in stock NEVER seem to be "just right". I even had one guy bitch that I had traded off the handle he sent even though I sent the original one cut off back in the same baggie the new one came in. And this is all for 45.00? Life is just too short for some of this stuff. I try to be polite to ALL callers but sometimes you just get tired. You tell them the price and they say they can get it done around the corner for 1/2 the cost. GO! With my blessings!!!!I had a guy call last night regarding a 760 rebore and asked why all the `smiths are in the 60-70 old bracket? I guess the kids ARE getting smarter.LOL

Aloha, Mark

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

Gunsmiths are buttheads at times is all I can say.

If your personality and way of communicating on here is any indication I can see how you might have problems when interacting with a professional gunsmith.

Have you ever considered working on your own rifles so you won’t have to deal with all these “butt head†gunsmiths?

The only famous gunsmith that was ever nice to me was Bob Snapp. Thanks...Bill.

In having a gunshop is just like any other business!You are dealing with the public and they are your bread and butter!Especially with a seasonal type job,when you make most of your monies within a few months of the year. Treating your customer or possible customers,sometimes does take a pill of diplomatic relationships classes.Some people do think that they are the only ones,and ect, ect. One must take the good with the bad,and expect to have some time taken off your workbench to BS as well. van

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
GSP7,
I am going to take a shot at actually answering your question, which seems to have escaped everyone else.

Actually it hasn't escaped anyone because GSP7 changed his original post....ask him!

quote:

Originally posted by fyj
quote:
Originally posted by duikerman:

Gunsmiths are buttheads at times is all I can say.



If your personality and way of communicating on here is any indication I can see how you might have problems when interacting with a professional gunsmith.

Have you ever considered working on your own rifles so you won’t have to deal with all these “butt head†gunsmiths?

Just why is it every time there is a pissing contest it's you involved? Not Me!

Vapo

The guy told me he was calling from WI. That kinda figgers. Or maybe it was 22WRF

quote:

Originally posted by duikerman:

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
GSP7,
I am going to take a shot at actually answering your question, which seems to have escaped everyone else.

Actually it hasn't escaped anyone because GSP7 changed his original post....ask him!

quote:

Originally posted by fyj
quote:
Originally posted by duikerman:

Gunsmiths are buttheads at times is all I can say.



If your personality and way of communicating on here is any indication I can see how you might have problems when interacting with a professional gunsmith.

Have you ever considered working on your own rifles so you won’t have to deal with all these “butt head†gunsmiths?

Just why is it every time there is a pissing contest it's you involved? Not Me!

When you make confrontational and provocative statements ( “Gunsmiths are buttheads at times is all I can sayâ€) then you shouldn’t be surprised when someone tries out the velocity and accuracy of their bladder contents on you.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
Vapo

The guy told me he was calling from WI. That kinda figgers. Or maybe it was 22WRF

Jim,
I know the guy too......and I seriously believe this isn't in his style of behavior.

But I'm laughing!~!!!!

Being from beerland Wisconsin tells me a lot.

They're still upset about the Packers, have a hangover and can't tell time yet!

Both malm and Jim Kobe (from what I have seen on here) seem more than generous in sharing their working knowledge as professional gunsmiths with whoever is in need of answers or advice for their problems.

In my short time on this site I have noticed that an awful lot of people on here have champagne appetites and beer pocketbooks when it comes to rifles and it is understandable that a professional gunsmith who has years invested in his trade might have some problems at times in dealing with people that think the world and everyone in it is supposed to stop while they get their rifle fixed or built on their time line and for as little money as possible.

Someone once told me that the guy that ownes and operates Timney triggers once told him that people are always bitching about him not answering his phone. He said that he can either be out in his shop building triggers, or sitting in the house answering and talking on the phone...but he hasn’t yet figured out how to do both! He said he could always hire someone to answer the phone but then he would have to raise his prices and then people would bitch about that also!

Too true FYJ. Also, I notice many people bash smiths yet have no qualms about coming to the smithing forum in hopes of picking up FREE tidbits from the very same professionals they like to bash later.

quote:

Originally posted by ElCaballero:
The problem is if you are not polite to all 30 you might miss out on some of those 3 to 5. They way I look at it is if you are going to be in a business to serve the public you had better not be a donkey. Discussing ideas with the tire kickers is as much a part of it as chambering a barrel.

Right! If you are a great craftsman, but can't stand people, try to hire a go-between who can....

quote:

I don't ride outside horses anymore for the simple reason that I can't stand people. My wife on the other hand loves to deal with the public. She gives riding lessons and rides their knotheads. I scoop poop and ride my own horses.

This is the idea!

If a gunsmith hires a go-between, then his prices will double out of necessity! And perhaps more than double as he may need to rent industrial space instead of working out of his home.

I think that as customers of gunsmiths we need to recognize that the good ones have a significant backlog and so we should get ready to be patient. We should also realize that a person is a gunsmith because of his talent with wood or metal. If he is good with people then fine, but if not that is fine too. Someone whose primary strength is talking to people might have pursued a career as a talk show host or in the diplomatic corps.

Gunsmiths face few problems many, many, other people don't also face in the coarse of their business. I'm not sure why this gets kicked around. Like anybody else some are good at their craft but have poor people skills, some have good people skills but are poor at their craft. Then there is the busness end of things, if a person can't manage a business it doesn't matter how good they are.

If somebody here is going to claim people like to pick at their knowledge here and then bash them then you should also include the opposite and claim some Smiths look to pick up business here and then bash their potential customer base. It goes both ways. However, I just look at everbody as people who do different things and people by their nature will have disagreements and arguements.

It seems a bit of a contradiction that a gunsmith with such poor people skills and busness practices would always be “backed up“ with work.

Could it be that only certain customers have that impression of them, and it is the customer that is the “butt head†and not the gunsmith?

Guess I am lucky. My gunsmith, Tip Burns, is responsive, patient, nice to deal with and a talented gunsmith to boot.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by fyj:
Could it be that only certain customers have that impression of them, and it is the customer that is the “butt head†and not the gunsmith?

I think you nailed it. The originator of the butthead comment was referring to "smiths" who post here and they main target of his comment is a close friend of mine who in the countless hours I have spent with him has never had anything but a cheerful, willing, enjoyable to be around attitude and demeanor.

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
Who is a Good gunsmith for D/T job & bolt tig weld job on a mauser?

1)Look in the yellow pages under gunsmith.

A $40 weld job and a $40 drill and tap job would be a good way to start a relationship with a gunsmith.

2) You could buy a welded bolt off Ebay.


3) You could pay $50 and get a drill and tap fixture.

4) You could pay $2,000 and get a TIG welder.


5) You could go to a gunshow and buy a sporterized Mauser. I got an elegantly welded sporterized 1895 Mauser that shoots good groups for $35.

6) If you are taking this rifle to Africa and are a high roller, there are plenty of smiths on this forum that will do the work and ship it to the engraver.

I've talked to 3 gunsmiths and done business with all 3 of those gunsmith's over the years. So I guess I'm not a tire kicker. 2 of the 3 were buttholes and I'll never deal with them again. Rude, terrible communication, etc. One of them has posted on this thread already...

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
I try to get as much of my work done locally. Fortunately I have a good guy to do my stuff close by. It makes everything a LOT easier. There are no shipping hassles and if something should ever go wrong I can work it out personally and not go through some of the long distance hassles often posted about here and other places. Surely there must be a decent Smith close by, I'd search one out.

dempsey, what gunsmith do you use??

I take my stuff to Capital Sports in Helena, they have two guys who have done good work for me. Who do you use in Great Falls?

Though this may not be a view shared by many, it is mine, none-the-less.

I view gunsmiths, and treat gunsmiths, just like I do everyone else. How I treat them depends entirely on how they treat me. If they allow my foibles, I allow theirs.
If they have time for me, I have time for them. If they don't, I don't.

I am as good in my field of lifetime endeavor as any anyone else is in his. I face as many problems in trying to get through my days as anyone else does. That and $1.00 will not be quite enough to get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. The same is true for everyone else, gunsmiths included.

Just as I had to serve my customers in my field, and be civil to them if I wanted them to return to me, so do all people have to treat me. If they don't, they will get my work or money (whichever they may have occasion to seek) only once.

I will tolerate reasonable mistakes in their work, as everyone has off days. But I need not and will not tolerate arrogance, rudeness, or dishonesty in the people I deal with. That, of course, does not go just for gunsmiths.

Anyone can be a butt-head if they wish. It's their life they are living. But, I do not have to support or enable that behavior.

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
I take my stuff to Capital Sports in Helena, they have two guys who have done good work for me. Who do you use in Great Falls?

i went to one to have a krieger placed on my savage. i'll never go there again. i want to get my remington 700 SA rebarreled, and i have been communicating with a smith close to town. there has been alot of back and forth email regarding the project. initially, his replies were the same day. now it takes him several days to respond. either he is too busy to answer my emails, or he thinks i am a tire knocker