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I'd like to ask everyones opinion on what is the correct inch/pounds or foot/pounds of torque used to tighten trigger guard screws for the best accuracy? I have several different brands of manufactured rifles, is the same torque used for all or is a different measurement used for each? Any methodology as to which order to tighten screws may be useful as well. The rifles are Ruger M77's Win M70's Mausers 96's and a 98 Would there be a different torque used for pillar bedded rifles than stock rifles? My intention is to get a torque measuring screwdriver and start being consistent with the re-assembly of my rifles and see if it makes an accuracy difference. I don't think it can hurt because the method I use now is "yeah that feels about right" and I know that isn't consistant. Any information would be a help, Thanks | ||
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I use the torque wrench sold by HS precision on allen head guard screws.I believe it is set at 65lbs.I've tried to find bits for the wrench to fit the slotted screws on my other rifles but was unsuccefull.In this case I tighten as hard as I can with my hand useing the best fitting screwdriver I have.I would prefer allen head screws for competition,shooting paper targets, or where extreme accuracy is needed.Ordinary sloted screws tightened by hand can easily give you half inch 200yd groups with hunting bullets. | |||
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Snellstrom, I've read that the Wheeler Engineering FAT torque screwdriver comes with torque specs for a lot of various applications used on guns. I'd likely go with their recommendations, if you get that one. I've used a regular mechanics inch-pound torque wrench for several years. Like Shootaway said, it is easier with hex drive screws. It isn't unuseable with slotted screws, you just have to use a well-fitting tip, and take some care. This is just my method for tightening action screws: 1. Install action and bottom metal - if any, and "wiggle" it in by hand. 2. Put in all the screws, and run them in just finger tight - barely snug. 3. Bump the butt of the rifle on the floor a couple of times to seat the recoil lug against the abuttment. 4. hand tighten the front screw to "snug" and bump the butt again. While your at it, now is the time to make sure the mag, spring, & follower aren't binding (and you remembered to put them in!) and work the bolt to assure everything is where it's supposed to be. 5. On a wood stock (bedded or not) I torque the front action screw to 50 in/lbs, and the rear to 40 in/lbs. if there is a middle screw, it only gets "snug". That's all there is to my method. I don't know if it's right, but it works, and is consistent. As far as pillar-bedded stocks, and synthetic stocks,too, They should be able to handle about 10 more in/lbs of torque on the front & rear screws. I stay a bit lighter on the wood stocks to try & keep from compressing the screw head seat too much. Another thing I do, is to try & pay attention to the way the screws tighten, and the orientation of the screw slot. A spongy feelin when tightening suggests something is giving. If you loosen a screw and retighten it, the slot should orient just about the same. If it doesn't, something needs attention. Hope this helps, it should be worth what you paid  ,,,,,,,,,Bug,It's the little things that matter. | |||
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unless there is a major problem, your wind flags would have several orders of magnitude more impact on shooting groups. What type of flags and how many are you using? What type of front rest do you use? Butch Lambert, who posts here, has some really great looking flags that he sells through his web site. I am saving my pennies and hope to soon buy a couple or three. I do not have a good (RE heavy and expensive) front rest. I am leaning towards a Farley, but will have to save a lot of pennies before I can get one. | |||
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Mark Thanks for the info but I'm not a "target shooter" in the broad sense I am strictly a hunter that likes to shoot his guns a lot to work out all the bugs and make sure that me and the rifles are ready for the hunt.( once I get them completely dialed in from the bench and have the utmost confidence in a load then I practice from various field shooting positions ) A couple of my rifles seem finicky one time I'll get a .75" group the next time with the same everything I'll get a group twice that size and I'm curious if various amounts of torque on the screws will produce larger or (hopefully) smaller groups. I was hoping to hear some foot pound or inch pound measurements for various rifles to have a baseline to start at and work up or down from there. My benchrest time is always shot with the same equipment ( front and rear sandbags ) from a bench and I try to be consistant about my hand pressure on the fore arm. Thanks Snellstrom | |||
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Snellstrom, I don't think it makes a whole bunch of difference what the value is on the torque wrench as long as it is adequate and both front and rear are EQUAL in value. Jim 99% of the democrats give the rest a bad name. "O" = zero NRA life member | |||
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I've had a torque driver for a long time (since the 80's) that was used for tightening the connecting pieces on the "Halo's" we put on patients with broken necks (that's the contraction you sometimes see people walking around with, that looks like a plastic water ski jacket attached to a ring around the skull). There was some widespread agreement (by the different Halo manufacturing companies) that 32 ft-lbs. was the magic number for all the cross pieces (caution: this is not the correct number for attaching pins into the skull!!!! Use only 6-8 ft-lbs for that). For that reason, 32 ft-lbs is the amount of torque I use: strong enough to keep a broken neck from falling apart, yet not so strong that metal (steel, aluminium, titanium) would shear. I check them at the start of a hunt, and again next season (unless something unusual happens, like getting dumped out the airplane). And yeah, I replace the action screws with hex-head ones. Garrett | |||
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Thanks Garrett I really like that analogy! | |||
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Wheeler recommneds 40 ft lbs for non pillar bedded stocks Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Hey Mike, Uh, recon' that might be INCH pounds???  It's the little things that matter. | |||
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WOW!!!!  I didn't think their little screwdriver went that high. GVA | |||
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Hey Snellstrom, I can't help you with specific Torque Numbers, but I can tell you what has helped me in the past with those rifles. After you have had them out of the stock and put back in, set the Recoil Pad on the floor with the barrel straight up. That helps get everything settled in the proper direction. Go to the screw just ahead of the magazine(toward the muzzle) and tighten it down very snug. Go next to the screw aft of the magazine and tighten it snug, but not as snug as the front screw. On rifles with the 3rd-middle screw, it should just be tight enough so it doesn't fall out, but not very tight because it can impart a wierd stress. Your current weather in Colorado will make it very difficult for any Termite Food stocks to remain stable. Even if you do everything the best possible and get the Torques exactly correct, wood will just fight the situation. The thing that "might" help you the most, or as least eliminate the Screw Tightness as a concern, would be to use Witness Marks. Once you get a rifle shooting good groups, before you disassemble it, place a Witness Mark on each Stock Screw. You can do it with a Magic Marker, dab of paint, small dent from a punch, or whatever method you desire. Then when you remove those screws, it will be possible to return them to the exact same position, regardless of what the Torque might happen to be. Even with Pillar Bedding and Synthetic Stocks, I try to be as consistent as possible and Witness Marks were passed down to me many years ago. Best of luck to you - especially in that Storm you are going through right now. (80deg here  ) | |||
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Who sells a reasonbly priced travel size torque wrench with a 65 inch/pounds break? I am in the market. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Hot Core Thanks for the information I really appreciate it, I know we've had our differences and I really do appreciate your responce. Maybe we are off on another foot so to speak. Wink I see that Midway has them for sale they are called a "FAT" torque screwdriver, I don't remember the price but I think it was about $50. | |||
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Hey Snellstrom, You are welcome. I have used the very small bottles of "Testors Paint" and a Toothpick to make a tiny dot at the Top edge of a Screw which works fairly well for awhile. A quick wipe with a little Alcohol removes most of the residual oil. Once I'm sure it is in the correct place(a year or so later), then I really have no problem putting a small permanent mark on the Screw. I typically make the Permanent Mark at the top of the screw, but that is just an old habbit of mine. If it is a "Slot Screw" ( - ) then you can just mark the stock in alignment with the end of the slot. I realize a lot of the "Artsey (pretty) Rifle" folks frown on making marks on any portion of their firearms. And perhaps they might have a better solution to offer. The Witness Marks just work well for me. P.S. If you are shooting next to a Swabjocky or GI and you forget the Testors, you might be able to borrow some fingernail polish from them.  --- Heard from a buddy in Mesa Verde last night and he said the weather has cleared up where he is, but the furnace sure felt good at night. Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills. | |||
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Don't let 'em scratch ya!_______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing How tight on trigger guard screws for best accuracy?
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