Poor wood from Dakota has been posted on this website many times and it's not at all a surprise to see this but I must say this is worse than anything I've seen before.

Let the buyer beware!!!

Thanks for posting this!

I have said it before and I will say it again. For what they charge for a semi-custom rifle, I can build one that has better wood and more options for a little less or same price. I just cannot understand why someone would pay that kind of money for a semi-custom when they can get a real custom from some better known gunmakers.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I have said it before and I will say it again. For what they charge for a semi-custom rifle, I can build one that has better wood and more options for a little less or same price. I just cannot understand why someone would pay that kind of money for a semi-custom when they can get a real custom from some better known gunmakers.

I have always wondered that myself. If I were to spend that kind of money on a rifle, I'd make sure it looks ten times better than the rifle in question.

The owner of that rifle however can hunt with the rifle while always staying to the right of his hunting buddies.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I just cannot understand why someone would pay that kind of money for a semi-custom when they can get a real custom from some better known gunmakers.

I can. If you have a custom rifle built you will be lucky to get 60% of its cost back if you ever sell it. With a semi-custom such as Dakota or Cooper you have a good chance of it appreciating in value for you.

Howard, this may be true to some extent but I have yet to see a Miller or Echol's for sale at 60% of orignal cost.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd223:
Howard, this may be true to some extent but I have yet to see a Miller or Echol's for sale at 60% of original cost.

Yes there are always exceptions to everything (cept taxes and gravity LOL) but your two examples help prove my point. The two rifles you hear about from them commanding high resale value are their no or limited options semi-custom Marksman and Legend rifles not their full custom products.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

The two rifles you hear about from them commanding high resale value are their no or limited options semi-custom Marksman and Legend rifles not their full custom products.

Bingo.

"I can. If you have a custom rifle built you will be lucky to get 60% of its cost back if you ever sell it. With a semi-custom such as Dakota or Cooper you have a good chance of it appreciating in value for you."

Howard,

I am amazed at your comment. Why would anybody comission a custom with the intent of selling it? Apparently you must think someone would want a Dakota only to later sell it.

quote:

With a semi-custom such as Dakota or Cooper you have a good chance of it appreciating in value for you.

While I guess it is possible I sure see a lot of Dakotas and Coopers sitting on the various auction/sales sights for a long time. Many at prices that appear to be a good about below retail. Then again I have no clue what they paid for them.

I am not a dealer and am not terribly shrewd in determining gun prices, but I have yet to see any semi-custom gun or even the old Sako's or pre-64's appreciate in value compared to the stock market, housing, or CD's. There is the rare instance where it happens, but mostly - we are paying for used guns that someone does not want anymore.

Exceptions exist but mostly, used Dakota's or used Empire rifles or used Cooper's are not sold at a profit (profit being defined as making more money that the current cost of money). I see hundreds of people at gun shows thinking they are making money. I truly doubt they are when you factor in the cost of travel, cost of money, expenses to show, cost of an FFL, etc., etc.

I look at the inventory that say - Champlin Firearms has - at least $1 million and likely more - and wonder if they or the guys at Cabela's Gun Room or Collector's Firearms truly make money beyond what could made with passive investments.

Gun retailers or wholesalers seem to make money on volume - but not much. The boutique gun shops make money on sales of higher end guns to those that are trading up or selling out and do not want to deal with the public to get rid of guns.

Think about this - You want to sell a used Dakota. You have $3500 in it and are trying to sell it for $4500. You have to convince a customer that he should spend $4500 on this used gun when he can buy a new one for $5500 or so. How many of these do you have to sell a year to make any money? I would think that if you have retail space, a couple of people to support and expenses (cost of money, etc.) you would need to sell 200 or more per year just to stay alive.

Hard to do.

It is like buying "investment cars". The only guy that makes money is the broker.

My 2 cents for what it is worth.

quote:

With a semi-custom such as Dakota or Cooper you have a good chance of it appreciating in value for you.

Not like the one pictured in this thread!!!!

And I'm not buying the comment in it's whole either.

dogcat, thank you for seeing it the way you do, that means one less person I have to compete with when selling guns

Let me state it better. With a semi-custom at sell ing time you will get a larger percentage of your investment back then you will on the full blown custom rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I am not a dealer and am not terribly shrewd in determining gun prices, but I have yet to see any semi-custom gun or even the old Sako's or pre-64's appreciate in value compared to the stock market, housing, or CD's.

Yes you are right. I used the wrong word. The question was, "why would anyone want a Dakota when you can get a full custom for the same price. First I don't think you can, the better know Guild members I am aware of start their stock making prices at around 3000 and that doesn't include the blank. Second if you ever sell you will get a larger percentage of your investment back on the semi-custom then you will on the full blown custom rifle. As I stated appreciating was the wrong word.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I am amazed at your comment. Why would anybody comission a custom with the intent of selling it? Apparently you must think someone would want a Dakota only to later sell it.

I am amazed you are amazed.

As far as custom sure you may not ever intend to sell but things change.

Dakotas/Coopers sure you bet. I have purchased three Dakotas with the intent of resaleing them. I am sure I am not the only one. Just look at all the old Kimber of Oregons/Coopers/Dakotas etc being bought and sold every month.

I'd repair it, shoot it and love every minute of it.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd223:
dogcat, thank you for seeing it the way you do, that means one less person I have to compete with when selling guns

Jimmy,
I may have confused myself with all of my logic. Being an engineer, that happens sometimes.

I think my point was - trading guns is a hard business to make money and I am not good at it.

That is the "Cliff's Notes" version of what I meant.

Oh well, humble pie tastes good sometimes.

Dogcat,
Try selling a gun to one of these outfits sometime and you will soon find out how they make there money.

John

I have never seen wood that bad even on a boat oar.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
Let's say you custom ordered a Dakota 76 ...

Then I ought to be horsewhipped for being such a fool!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have never seen wood that bad even on a boat oar.

That is because boat oars can't have holes in them.

On the "HOLY" thread in this forum, there is a very funny discussion about a stock that is so gaudy you would think Mr. T was using it or some rapper.

One of the best comments was about the wormhole on this Dakota - the comment was - " I would just take the worm and go fishing".

Another thought - maybe you could turn this into a thumbhole stock? Ok, I didn't think so.

you guys haven't gotten to the punchline on this bad joke yet...it's a friggin' 22-250. Soooooooooo, not only is it an eyesore and overpriced, it's useless! I maybe not be a mainstream guy buyer/trader/seller, but I buy rifles over CZ price range for the esthetics (artistry in wood and metal) as much as usefulness. I think they have the decimal point over to the right one place too far...maybe they meant $299.xx and just made a typo! Talk about a #3 creosoted fencepost-looking piece of wood...

Rich

The first picture looks beautiful, but it is very straight grained. I thought the more X's or A's denoted increasing levels of figure in the wood? Surely they didn't consider that ax wound on the right side as "figure".

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd223:
Howard, this may be true to some extent but I have yet to see a Miller or Echol's for sale at 60% of original cost.

Yes there are always exceptions to everything (cept taxes and gravity LOL) but your two examples help prove my point. The two rifles you hear about from them commanding high resale value are their no or limited options semi-custom Marksman and Legend rifles not their full custom products.

Actually you are wrong on this count too..I have bought, and sold many Millers, both marksman, and Classic.. The classic is Millers full-blown custom.I have yet to make less than 50% on resale, and many times closer to 100%, and within one year of purchase..It may not go on forever, but it has served me well for the last 6-7 years..I may not know much, but this is one thing I know well.

Lee