Hello All
I have been researching bedding and am thinking of glass pillar bedding my remington 504. I would really like to run my ideas past people that have been here before so I know I am on the right track

I have found the following link
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86271

I am concerned that this might be to much for my first effort

But I am keen to give it ago. I spoke to a local gunsmith to see if I could pay him to do it and let me watch so I can do my other rifles in the future but he said he has never pillar bedded a rifle.

This is what I am planning on doing
- Buying this kit Pro-Bed 2000 epoxy
- Buying aluminium rod.
- Drilling holes in stock with hand drill to slip the Al rods in.
- Cut grooves in the outside of rods so glass can grab them better
- Drilling holes through the centre of the rods so the existing bolts can still work.
- Buy a stainless threaded bolt and cut the end of then cut a slot in stock to insert as cross bolt.
- Cut the Al pillars so that they are just short of the exposed stock when in place.
- Am still deciding how to hold the pillars in place while I glass them in.
- Once the pillars are in place, will precede as per instructions for glass bedding.


The other alternative is to drill some holes. Plug the bottom and use the fibreglass to make the pillars. Then when dry drill through them for the bolts to go through. Following this I can then glass bed as per general methods. Would still use the cross bolt though.

Will be interested in your thoughts and especially if I will be doing something which could stuff this job up.
Cheers
Michael

Michael,
too early in the am to give you a long answer, but welcome to the forums.

On the tool bar you'll see "find" click on that and do a search for bedding .. pick gingo cazador, atkinson, chic, rusty, or even me on bedding advice

jeffe

Michael,
To get the best bedding job possible,
I usually begin with. . .

"Hello, Jeffe? This is Rusty. Hey bubba, ya busy Saturday?"

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
"Hello, Jeffe? This is Robe. Hey bubba, ya busy Saturday?"

Yes don't want to stuff this up. Really nice looking rifle. Will do another detailed search.

Have been using the search engine here and have come to the point where I need to check my plan of attack above.

Will go through and see what has already been written by the people you mentioned.
Thanks
robe

DIY Bedding

Robe try this Thread.

There are many ways to bed a rifle, and each guy has to find what works for him.

I remove more wood than others.
I drill and sink toothpicks into the stock. I then trim the toothpicks until the action is at the right hiegth. I do from 2" of barrel all the way back to the tang without play dough for dams. I use Devcon steel putty that is too thick to run and sets up as slow as I am.

Then I glass the pillars.
Then I glass the bottom metal, with, again, toothpicks.

Rusty I read through the link and found it useful. I still have the following questions.

How does the fibreglass bond to a second layer?
i.e can I fibreglass the aluminium pillars then when set fibreglass the action ontop of the pillars?

tnekkcc I take it the tooth picks help elevate the action to the required hight while the fibreglass sets. Would this mean that if I have the action sitting on the pillars at the right height I should be able to put the fibreglass in then tighten the screws down to help it mould the fibreglass into a snug fit around the action.

The other posts recommend Brownwells kit. Will the Pro bed 2000 sufice I should I track down the brownells and pay whatever it takes?

You might try http://www.probed2000.com, Charlie Robertson has put a cd together that goes into great depth on pillar bedding and he will send
you one free. His bedding products are superb and his adjustable pillars are really user friendly.
Charlie

quote:

Originally posted by robe0280:
Rusty I read through the link and found it useful. I still have the following questions.

How does the fibreglass bond to a second layer?
i.e can I fibreglass the aluminium pillars then when set fibreglass the action ontop of the pillars?

tnekkcc I take it the tooth picks help elevate the action to the required hight while the fibreglass sets. Would this mean that if I have the action sitting on the pillars at the right height I should be able to put the fibreglass in then tighten the screws down to help it mould the fibreglass into a snug fit around the action.

The other posts recommend Brownwells kit. Will the Pro bed 2000 sufice I should I track down the brownells and pay whatever it takes?

Robe280:

Permit me to try and talk you out of the solid aluminum rods, to be drilled after installation in the stock. If you must have aluminum pillars, go to Brownell's Catalog and order some
of generic length [see page 257, Item no. 080-708-078 (short pillar) and item no. 080-708-138 (long pillar) Take alook also at Darrel Holland's bedding pillar system for the Rem 700---Brownell's item no. 403-000-012. Be sure and check to see how much length you need before ordering any of these to be sure they will be long enough].

Once you have these pillars, you can then cut them to fit. Also, you might come up with your specs and try a local machine shop. IMHO, you will be going to alot of unnecessary and cumbersome work to install solid rod first, then try to drill it. There are a couple challenges inherent in that approach: first, getting the holes straight will not be easy because you will have to manipulate the entire rifle stock to do so. It will also require a vise that can hold your stock securely without marring the surface. Do you have a vise with padded jaws!? Second, how will you know the holes are straight without first drilling through the rod [after which the holes may well be crooked]?

The advantage of having pillars ready made with holes pre-drilled is that you can place a few wraps of tape around your action screws, insert same into the pillars and screw the action screws into the bottom of the receiver. You can then set the receiver, screws pillars and all into the holes which you have pre-drilled in the stock to accomodate the pillars. It is not critical that these holes are perfectly straight, (so long as the pillars go in without binding) because epoxy will fill all voids between the pillar and the wall of the hole. With a few layers of tape around the action screws, the screws will be perfectly centered in the pillars. Another option is to use a few small O-rings rather than tape to center the action screws in the pillars.

The most important criteria for getting a good clean bedding job, in my opinion, is planning and analyzing your approach. Think through your proposed course of action. Make sure you have all the tools and materials you need. Do a trial fit before you slather epoxy into your receiver mortise or the action holes in the stock. Be sure and mask off the stock and have plenty of Q-tips and acetone available to remove epoxy from unwanted places before it dries. I always put a layer of 10 mil plumber's black tape around my reciever [trimming it with an exacto knife) so that there is always a little clearance between the outside of the receiver and inside of receiver mortise in the wood. (This is not so critical with a round bottom action.)

You will want to insure you put modeling clay where ever you do not want bedding material (into mortises and voids in the action and the stock). You will want to insure you have surgical tubing to hold the receiver in place while the epoxy cures.

One of the constant challenges for me is to get epoxy all around the pillars. When they are inserted into the holes in the stock, then tend to push out any epoxy placed in the hole to start with. Here is an approach that works well. Get some plastic syriunges from Sinclairs. I am talking about the ones with the
long plastic snout. Once your pillars are screwed to the underside of the action, and your action is inserted into the stock and wrapped tight with surgical tape, turn the underside of the action upward. Put some epoxy in a Sinclair syringe. Insert the snout into the void between pillar and hole in stock and fill 'er up. You might have to make a clay dam around the action holes before inserting the receiver into the stock to insure that the bedding compound does not run out.

Finally, let me put in a word for Devcon's two barrel syringe of "plastic steel" as an excellent bedding compound.


Jordan

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
There are many ways to bed a rifle, and each guy has to find what works for him.

I remove more wood than others.
I drill and sink toothpicks into the stock. I then trim the toothpicks until the action is at the right hiegth. I do from 2" of barrel all the way back to the tang without play dough for dams. I use Devcon steel putty that is too thick to run and sets up as slow as I am.

Then I glass the pillars.
Then I glass the bottom metal, with, again, toothpicks.

Just a question...what is your reasoning behind doing the action bedding before doing the pillars? I’ve always done the pillars first so I have something rock solid to hold the action in the proper place for bedding. Same thing for the bottom metal...the pillars will automatically place it at the proper depth for bedding, so I’m confused with what the tooth picks are doing for you that the pillars themselves wouldn’t do.

Hello hysider
Thanks for the web link. I got to view his instructions by downloading of the net. Am not patient enough to wait for a CD to make it all the way to Australia.

That probed 2000 looks like good stuff.
I will go the way of the pillar bed. I think that if I can trim the aluminium to the right height then put the wax release on the standard screws I can use that to hold the action to the pillars.


The tricky bit could be making sure the probed moulds in well between the pillar and the action. As I don't think I will try shaping the aluminium to fit the action exactly.

Question If I use flat aluminium pillars against a round action will having fibreglass fill in the edges still produce a good bed?

quote:

I’m confused with what the tooth picks are doing for you that the pillars themselves wouldn’t do.

I cut out allot of wood.
With Mausers I just do a pillar in the rear.
I want the action at an exact hieght realtive to the stock. The tooth picks get me that. All I want from the pillar is that it is meets the top metal sqaure, they are concentric with the screws, and they are the right length.
Tape around the screws ala Wagner does the concentric. Top metal fist allows me to fit the bottom metal to the stock by shortening the pillar. There is no tooth pick in the rear, just the pillar.

quote:

Originally posted by robe0280:
How does the fibreglass bond to a second layer?
i.e can I fibreglass the aluminium pillars then when set fibreglass the action ontop of the pillars?

Many epoxy systems (not all; some marine epoxies won’t blush, for example) tend to form a so called “amine blush†on the surface when curing; this shows as thin, more or less greasy, tacky layer. Normally, when a second layer of fresh epoxy is applied before the first one has fully cured, the “blush†is chemically dissolved and the two layers fuse together for a good bond. Applying fresh epoxy over a cured and “blushed†surface makes for a bad bond. On a cured epoxy surface, the “blush†can be washed off with water and / or the surface should be scraped or sanded to expose the underlying material which will normally bond very well; sanding dust should be removed with compressed air or a damp cloth without using solvents like acetone which could influence the bonding strength. The time frame for applying fresh epoxy over a partially cured layer should not extend the cure time specified for the given product; a good time is when the epoxy has already solidified or reached handling strength without being fully cured; working “wet in wet†will always work. If in doubt, I’d contact the manufacturer.

Frank

Thanks for the detailed post Jordan.
I will try and chase down what options i have in Aus for pillars. Am not certain that the 504 action will take the same pillars as the 700. If I am not concerned with the pillar mating flush with the action but am happy with only a small metal to metal contact area it shouldn't matter if I buy generic and I don't want to make things harder than they have to be for my first attempt.

I do have a vice suitable for the stock. So once I get the pillars sorted I should be right. I have access to syringes and a lot of other stuff from work.

Mr Jones I was a bit worried about that but thought doing it in small bits might make it easier. I think I will just do it as I have been reading and do the whole lot at once. But with careful prep before hand.
Thanks all
robe

Have a look through the Brownells online catalogue. You can download pdf's of their pillar bedding kit instructions. Good stepwise how-to's, these.

For an Oz source for Pro-Bed 2000 [and good advice, by the sound of it], see this recent thread.