Found a pretty decent looking 9.3x57, fits me well - but at some point it has had a side mount on it.

Anybody any good at welding them up and recontouring/milling that rail?

Keeping it as it is would be a deal breaker for me.

plug screws?? would be better.
I personlly will not weld on an action unless I know for sure it will be sent for heat treat.
Although a good micro welder could do it with little problem.

quote:

Originally posted by fireball168:
Found a pretty decent looking 9.3x57, fits me well - but at some point it has had a side mount on it.

Anybody any good at welding them up and recontouring/milling that rail?

Keeping it as it is would be a deal breaker for me.

Yeah,

I've done this more than a few times.

As long as the front receiver ring is packed in heat stop or similar, there would be no reason to have to reheat treat the receiver.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
As long as the front receiver ring is packed in heat stop or similar, there would be no reason to have to reheat treat the receiver.

That may be the case. Depending on the actual location of the holes I may or may not do it. Welding produces stresses in the Heat effected area. Now granted these stresses are small and most likely would not pose any issues. I just don't care for it.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
As long as the front receiver ring is packed in heat stop or similar, there would be no reason to have to reheat treat the receiver.

That may be the case But I just don't like doing it. Welding produces stresses in the Heat effected area. Now granted these stresses are small and most likely would not pose any issues. I just don't care for it.

Exactly what load does the siderail carry? Done correctly the receiver ring is unaffected.

quote:

Exactly what load does the siderail carry? Done correctly the receiver ring is unaffected.

It's not the load that bothers me it's the inconsistency in the flow of load through the action. Keep in mind I'm knit picking here. Like I said the stresses involved are extremely small and should not pose any concern.

no big deal at all. put a plug screw in the hole and leave it stick out a tad on both sides. spread a bit of block heat before and after the area, run you tig torch with just enough heat to melt the screws into the base metal. grind and polish

Butch and Mike; I have seen some nicely done repairs, but never one that was not detectable by the difference in the way the plug accepts bluing. Is it a matter of matching the rod to the job, or is it just a fact of life to live with? Lee.

I'm kinda interested in this as I found a real nice Mod 65 in 218 Bee that has been drilled and tapped for side mounts. I have shied away from it for a few years because of that.
Butch

Wouldn't bother me if the holes were filled with plug screws as long as the holes were laid out correctly to begin with- gotta be cheaper to accomplish by a margin over welding & refinishing; but that ain't the main point.

make some taper pins out of O1 drive them in and finsh them off. Of course the holes need reamed with a taper reamer first.

I had exactly the same situation on a Mauser from Sweden. I found that M5X.8 metric setscrews thread into the holes. Grind them off so that they are below the metal maybe 50 thousandths on both sides. Then I took mine to a microwelder who uses a laser welder under a microscope. He filled in the holes so that the weld metal was above the parent metal. Make sure that he uses gun welding rod from Brownells. The welding is so localized that I could touch the metal within a half inch of the weld. Look for microwelding in the yellow pages. If you can't find one locally, call Sid Goodling in PA at 717 225 3350. He is a gunsmith who can take the gun to the microwelder that I used.

Butch
Check with John Farner AKA "toomany tools"
He just plugged and finished four holes in the barrel of my old 39A Marlin, super job.
Lyle

I'd pay an experienced gunsmith to weld them up. Anybody who's proficient with a TIG and has done this a few times can do it for you without screwing up the action. Heat shouldn't be a big problem with this.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:

It's not the load that bothers me it's the inconsistency in the flow of load through the action. Keep in mind I'm knit picking here. Like I said the stresses involved are extremely small and should not pose any concern.

If you are that wound up about a couple of #6 holes in the side rail, I would say you should pass. Even if you have it fixed, I don't think you would be happy with it. Anyway, the load does not flow through the action. It is taken up by the recoil lug. The rest of the action is there to hold the trigger and keep the bolt from falling out.

From what I have heard and witnessed, the weld will show. I have had the holes tig welded up on pre-64's with mild steel and 4140 rod by a very good welder (Not me Rem721 or Z1R) and the problem stems from the base metal, not the rod. When welded, the carbon from the base metal migrates to the filler rod and causes it to harden. No amount of oost or pre heat treat will fix it. When reblued, they always show the shiny hard spot. The best way is probably to fill and peen. IMHO

On another thread started by Butchlambert about his 22-250 project I posted a photo of one of Jim Carmichel's rifles that he wrote a story about in Outdoor Life magazine.

Here is what he had to say about it.

"One of the features that makes this rifle so special is the way Lampert took a standard sized M-98 style Mauser action and shortened it to a perfect length for the little .250 round. This is a tour de force in gunsmithing. Search a you will, it's impossible to see where Lampert cut an inch out of the action and welded it back together". (Outdoor Life Nov. 2003)


That action is blued. Therefore, it would seem that it is possible to weld actions or action holes and have the weld be invisible!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
When welded, the carbon from the base metal migrates to the filler rod and causes it to harden. No amount of oost or pre heat treat will fix it. When reblued, they always show the shiny hard spot.

You need to heat and normalize the surrounding area after welding if you don't want it to show. Similar to what is done when spot annealing before drilling and tapping. If anyone remembers that procedure of long ago.

That said, not all large areas will withstand the required heat soaking necessary to normalize the weld without affecting critical heat treatment. The best headache medicine for this type of work is choosing the correct filler rod. It helps to allow the Argon to remain flowing over the weld for a few seconds after the arc is extinguished.

+I now have to say I just talked to my welder friend about this and he tells me it is a combination of the correct filler rod and a post and pre heat to accomodate it.

And I see ol' wannabe had to stick his nose in to show how intelligent he is.

The right rod certainly helps. And, as Malm pointed out, sometimes you can normalize the spot to help blend it but in this case that would not be wise. Lastly, the type of blue you use counts for a lot.

lets frame this..
9,3x57 (okay, it could become a x62)
SIDE holes
SMALL holes

deal breaker

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
I personlly will not weld on an action unless I know for sure it will be sent for heat treat.
.

oh, you are already in a hole, best to stop diggin. You answer makes it obvious that you don't understand the TIG process of welding, the size+location of the holes, and why one would heat treat to make the side stronger .. NONE.. zip.. nada... no, its not a nitpicking, its a WASTE of time and effort... itty bitty side holes that will take 10 mins to fill, and then file/stone to look great.

quote:

Originally posted by Nick Hughes:
make some taper pins out of O1 drive them in and finsh them off. Of course the holes need reamed with a taper reamer first.

use 1018, not O1, and then tig INSIDE...peen then over and stone flush

the side of the action is not, if the front action screw is screwed in, taking very much of a load. If the TIG welder knows what he's doing, there's no reason to heat treat.

What No Rem721 ?

Easier to find the mount that fits the holes.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
I personlly will not weld on an action unless I know for sure it will be sent for heat treat.
.

quote:

oh, you are already in a hole, best to stop diggin. You answer makes it obvious that you don't understand the TIG process of welding, the size+location of the holes, and why one would heat treat to make the side stronger .. NONE.. zip.. nada... no, its not a nitpicking, its a WASTE of time and effort... itty bitty side holes that will take 10 mins to fill, and then file/stone to look great.

Say what you will But I don't like the idea. I'll make this correction though. I'd try it on an action I didn't care about first then make my decision. It may in fact pose no danger at all, It may in fact carry no load at the welded area but I'm not willing to stake my life on it until I know for sure it will not effect the strength of the action.