I have a couple of Montana 1999 left handed long actions. I want to have one of them made into a 458 Lott caliber rifle. Clearly, I need a stock, barrel, sights, and furniture. I like the lines of Winchester’s Safari Express stock (which my 375 has), but the stock on my 375 doesn’t fit me well. I don’t need a nice piece of wood, and I don’t rule out a laminated stock at this stage. I will only install iron sights. I don’t intend to ever mount a scope. I think I will go for a barrel band front sling swivel instead of flush-mounted studs.

My question is about the staging of the project. I don’t have any problem at all paying well for work well done. I just want to get things done in a logical order so I don’t pay to have done two or three time (e. g. installing a barrel) if I need to do something else (like have the receiver straightened) that involves undoing something I previously paid for.

Here is what work the action needs:

The lines are wavy instead of straight. Someone aggressively buffed the receiver, and there are no straight lines left on it. There are dips and high spots, and many surfaces have a sway-back appearance, because the middle of a section was buffed more enthusiastically than the edges. Some areas are smooth, almost ready to blue. Other areas have an as-cast “engine block†or “cottage cheese†appearance. The mould marks (fins) where the two halves of the mould came together are visible in several places above where the stock will be, including inside the ejection port. The surfaces the bolt will ride on are very rough, like a cast iron engine block. The “primary extraction†camming surfaces are engine block rough. There are other issues with the finish, but clearly, this one needs major work before the barrel is screwed on. This action has been back to Montana to have the finish problems fixed, and what I am describing is the “corrected†action that they sent back to me after I sent an even worse action back to them.

As I said, I would certainly not pay to have a barrel installed before I have the receiver corrected.

Am I correct in assuming I can get the surfaces straightened by surface grinding; have a barrel, sights and barrel band installed, and then send the whole thing to a stock maker and be done with it?

H. C.

Henry,
Send it off to a metalsmith and have him surface grind it, then fit the barrel and items you want, then stock it, fit the stock to the metal and finish it. Then the metal can be blued as the stock is being checkered. Dave Christman is in Delhi Louisiana and can do it all for you at in one spot. 318-878-1395

Henry,
if you want the whole thing farmed out, go with what chic said.

if you are willing to do the work, it's rather rewarding.

have it surface ground
then a lott barrel installed and sights/barrel band

send it to a stockmaker (or do it yourself) for stocking, bedding and pad...

THEN blue it.

best of luck
jeffe

Just wanted to add another question to Henry's list.

How fine a polish should the metalsmith go before sending it to the stocker? I.e. does he do the final polish then send it or will the metal get another polish after the stocker has finished and before blueing?

If practical, shoot the rifle as early in the process as you can - e.g. shoot it in the white before metal finish is applied. That way, in case anything should go wrong and problems need to be rectified, you won't have to finish the metal once again.
- mike

one thing i'd add - and if you're doing the work yourself is easy; if farmed out is a little tedious - and virtually no one ever mentions, for an open sighted DGR even moreso than a scoped rifle, the comb of the stock needs to be worked to your face AFTER the sights are zeroed. and really this is good advice w/ a scope also.

which means, all the metal work, then fit to the stock, then get the LOP and pitch right, all the while the comb left full, then sights zeroed, then the comb worked to YOUR face alone so when shouldered fast sight alignment is almost an afterthought. then finish everything out.

some of these pics of very high $$ custom guns, i always wonder just how well they actually fit the shooter who paid for the work.

and another thing that i'm sure looks weird on the ones i've done for myself lately, cheekpieces don't have to be flat and in fact feel, fit, and handle recoil much better if dished out. i've only got one gunsmithing book in which the author advocates that, wetting the face and working off the damp areas of the stock so is "fitted". actually howe also advocated that in his book but i don't "have" it. looks odd but you won't believe the difference in feel, almost like is a part of you.

What Chic said. :-)

If the gunsmith doing the surface grinding and sorting out the insides of the action is going to do the barreling also he is not going to hcarge you if he removes the barrel and puts it back on, he might do this as part of the process.

somebody asked about polish, depends on the smith probably. Mine is a master polisher, used to duplicate finishes on old old guns and knows many tricks, so he polishes the metal out, then after I get it and the stock goes on etc. he'll double check it again before going to the bluer. it might be an extra step but the polishing will determine how good the bluing comes out. And it will be different if you are going rust blue or hot blue.

Next year I am going to try and get my 458 finished and I had the pleasure of talking to Campbell Smith at SCI this year, he is an African PH. I was talking to him about the 458 Lott and told him that I was planning open sights only. He has what was possibly the first Lott used by a PH over there as he cut the chamber I think with a reamer he got from Lott himself, any ways he has been loading for his for over 15 years I think he said. He told me to scope it wth a Leupold 1.5-5 or something similar. He said late day or early morning with low light the scope would make a good difference and said that he wouldn't want his clients to have an unscoped rifle.

After that I changed my plans and have added custom integral bases and quick release sights to my plans and switched from the barrel mounted rear sight to a pop up peep. Adds more cost to it and pushes me getting it started back a year, but it'll be worth it.

Red

Henry

You might want to look at www.serengetirifles.com click on African Rifles
then Serengeti Actions. I have not seen any of there work so this not a recommendation. Just a place to look at the options.

It sounds like your action is rough like mine.
When you have your action ground the serial #'s and engraving will be removed. All of the inside casting marks cannot be removed.
I have 4 of the short actions from the charter program. I have over 6 hours each in machine and polishing time. I am building these actions now for resale. I will sell these as a utility rifle not a custom. I do not think these actions are fit for a full custom rifle.
Utility, yes. Just my opinion.

James

Hello,
From the description you gave on the action you are thinking about having "redone..." I would suggest you make a paper weight out of it! I can not believe a mfg. would offer to the buying public an action in the condition you describe. If the external surfaces are as sorry as you mention, can you imagine what else may be wrong with the action?? To spend more money on this action seems a real waste of time and money. As mentioned, there are other options available. Just my opinion.
Favor Center!!
dsiteman

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Hello,
From the description you gave on the action you are thinking about having "redone..." I would suggest you make a paper weight out of it!

quote:

I will sell these as a utility rifle not a custom. I do not think these actions are fit for a full custom rifle.

d-, j-

Yes, if either of these end up being a rifle, it will be a utilitarian sort of thing, possibly synthetic or laminate stocked. Certainly not engraved, gold inlaid or anything fancy. I may have misused the term "custom", just because I, and not the factory, would be arranging putting it together.

I don't know what good other options I have being left handed. If Ruger made their Magnum rifle left handed, I'd be out there bruising my shoulder instead of bruising your ears with questions. Unless there is a very workable used left handed rifle out there to start with, I hate to pay for hardware such as a stock and barrel on a brand new Winchester if these will be discarded in favor of a bigger bore and more suitable stock.

Even though the action has been back to Montana, so presumably it has been gone over twice by a gunsmith, I will probably solicit a third opinion on functioning and safety from an independent gunsmith, that being whoever does the surface grinding, if the project ever comes to that.

I have heard estimates of $150 to $300 to surface grind the action and polish the feed rails. Does this sound too high or low to you all? It sounds kind of cheap for what you say is 6 hours' work.

H. C.

Henry

I could of worded my response better. For this I apologize.

From what I have seen on these actions, mechanically they are OK. They do need some tweaking. In all honesty the actions I mentioned was dimensionally straight. They took very little work in this area. On the other hand exterior surfaces / finish was horrible, as you know.

As for surface grinding $150.00 to $200.00 would be the norm. Every action is different an needs to be addressed as such. I charge $30.00 per hour, so 6 hours ($180.00) is not out of line.

I see no reason that your actions could not be turned into a very good looking and excellent hunting rifle that you would be proud to own. Just not a safe Queen.

Where in WV are you located if you don't mind me asking? PM me if you like.

James

I live in Dunbar, and I shoot mostly at Putnam County Gun Club. I should almost put "shoot" in quotes back there. I think about shooting a lot, and I used to shoot a lot about until we had a baby. Now I chase after a baby a lot, and I shoot a little. All in all, it's a good trade.

H. C.