I'm kinda partial to a shortish forend.

this is too short (petrov photo)



Thinking 7.5-8.5" with a 20" barrel

Hate to see this come up again. But ....7" actually looks pretty balanced for a 20" barrel TO MY EYE (ONLY)

You might look up SDH's formula on fore end length. posted on AR Forums

Might have run out of blank size.

Don't see too many guns where the cheek piece is longer than the forend.

8" photoshop vs 9.75

slight schnabel doen't work on the short forend.

on of the reasons I shorten the height of the mag box on a MiniX

Many of the old time English African hunters were tall men who when shooting off hand held their guns with the forehand well out on the forend, or out wrapped around the barrels on doubles having shorter splinter forends. Supposedly this gave them better pointability and greater control over recoil. Hence rifles like the Mauser Type A sporter made for the English market had stocks with long lengths of pull and a forend reaching almost halfway along a 24" barrel.

To me these stocks were nicely balanced and pleasing to the eye, but then I am biased as I have one

I adhere to The Golden Ratio.

Makes absolutely no difference; whatever you want is just a saw blade away. And maybe a rasp.

These are all right at the golden ratio for a 22” barrel. I think the circumference of the forend also makes a difference. A short forend with a lot of mass looks kinda chunky. But then again I don’t know anything-

IDK,
ask Duane - he seems to always make a beautiful stock .. my stocks ALWAYS look chunky -- and anyone that's shook hands with me knows why

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Might have run out of blank size.

Don't see too many guns where the cheek piece is longer than the forend.

My eyeball sez this is overall pretty short. With the cheekpiece so fa back, I'd be inclined to think it was built for a smaller person...perhaps a woman

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Makes absolutely no difference; whatever you want is just a saw blade away. And maybe a rasp.

A old slim savage 99 schnabel forend is about right very slim and trim.

speaking of Savage this is photoshop type work.

mini-mauser stock and savage 99 forend. c 2004.

As I've said before, I think short fore ends are folly, just some English extrapolation of the double gun's splinter. Ironically, splinter fore ends meant shooters burnt their hands on hot barrels and so had to drape them with leather thongs. You wouldn't hold on to a magazine rifle's barrel while shooting, though, would you?

Yes, on a Savage 99; sure. But you are only shooting one to 3 rounds at the most at one time.
You only burn your hands on shotgun barrels blasting clay targets or heavy quail fields; when are you going to shoot enough rifle rounds to burn your hands? I have seen the leather hand protectors; on double shotguns.
Make the forearm any size or shape you like.

golden ratio would be 7.45"

barrel is 19.5

19.5 / 1.618 = 12.05
19.5-12.05 = 7.45

The only golden rule is what your eye sees and your brain tells you if you like it or not. If you do, good. If you don't, good. But it is not the same for everyone. For example, I like the Rem 600 ratio. I also like the Sharps rifle ratio which is .3.

...and there are lots of queer looking forends on strangely designed guns. Just like the odd ball above.
I have difficulty imagining art and architecture without the Golden Ratio rule applied. Some proportions just work well and it has been proven over centuries.
Of course the dog-leg bolt handle, laminated stock and vent rib further the look.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The only golden rule is what your eye sees and your brain tells you if you like it or not. If you do, good. If you don't, good. But it is not the same for everyone. For example, I like the Rem 600 ratio. I also like the Sharps rifle ratio which is .3.

Butt ugly to say the least.

And yet lots of people like it which proves the rule is not a rule at all. More like a suggestion.

I think we've been here before, SDH. My concern with the golden-ratio application is from where to where do you apply it? Should it be from butt plate to trigger against trigger to fore-end tip or from receiver ring to tip and butt. Then, which measurement should be the longer?

The classic use of this ratio is length against width or height against width, and I'm not sure it lends itself to other kinds of dimensions.

A lot of hunters find rifles with short forends are not nice to carry slung on the shoulder (muzzle up), in warmer weather at least - particularly if the sling eye is far up toward the muzzle. Position of the sling eye on the butt affects the way the rifle sits.

Schnabel forend tips often dig in (petite ones), and if someone wants a schnabel and yet intends to sling the rifle on the shoulder (muzzle up) - well right there is a problem to be discussed and sorted.

To me, forend length must depend on function first, looks second. I start out knowing the desired barrel length, and position the sling eye at a point on the barrel where the customer is comfortable, and the muzzle isn't too high, or it will snag on brush overhead. It's all a matter of getting the best outcome all things considered. Obviously it is difficult to do this running blind, I really need the customer present.

I also must bear in mind at the forend style the customer wants ( and the style of the stock in general) and juggle the length and sometimes sling eye position (very slightly) until the balance between them is right to my eye. It is vital to me to consider where the customer instinctively places the forearm hand. This very much affects how long the forend must be, and where the checkering pattern must be. Again, a bit of juggling is needed.

Forend length also depends on the bottom angle of the bottom metal, barrel profile (width of forend).

This is where several fitting sessions whilst building a custom pattern for the customer really pays off. It is really easy to draw a rifle that looks tickety boo and build it. However, to take into consideration all of the above and more, when dimensions must be somewhat fluid - well I find that WAY harder to still wind up with a rifle that is elegant.

Length of Pull affects the balance of the stock in relation to a particular forend length, customers with longer LOP tend to need a little longer forend. Ditto barrel length.

I have had my fingers burned plenty of times by hot bolt action barrels, but I've done a lot of culling work (on foot). Big bores in many areas of Australia in the warmest months get burning hot, very quickly. I find this can be minimised slightly by forend design/profile, and not necessarily by adding a lot of bulk. Depending on the job, customer and chambering it is of importance to me to not to make a job out with a finger-burner. Some designs people have to live with the consequences and splinters on big doubles are a great example of that.

If the customer insists on a sling eye on the forend instead of the barrel, then obviously the forend must be suitably long, within reason.

What really matters is what the rifle looks and handles like in real life. In photographs, just the slightest change of angle or light can make the most beautiful rifle much better or worse looking. A full scale drawing is a great start, but to me is a great limitation. I prefer to model in 3D - where the job in it's pattern stock becomes a try rifle - and don't much like when a customer won't travel to take advantage of this. It also gives me a chance to see whether the customer has developed ideas through experience handling and shooting similar rifles, or via window shopping on the net. Often what they want in the mind isn't the best for them in the bush - if they actually ever hunt. I detest safe queens.

I suppose the above is aimed at reducing any confusions in spec and form to being as minimal as possible. I do this because increasingly customers are (on average) focusses much more on visual aspects of custom stocks/rifles rather than how they fit, handle and function. It's just my own method of doing it and not the only way and likely not the best. It does add expense to the job, taking pains with such details takes time.

Theoretical ratios are kinda meaningless to me, considering the above, when it comes to forend length. I bear them in mind, instinctively and from experience but not formally.

Short of the above, full scale drawings are very helpful in getting the balance close.

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The only golden rule is what your eye sees and your brain tells you if you like it or not. If you do, good. If you don't, good. But it is not the same for everyone. For example, I like the Rem 600 ratio. I also like the Sharps rifle ratio which is .3.

Butt ugly to say the least.

No lie. Looks like it was designed by JC Whitney.

It's amazing that millions of guys manage to kill game with off the rack rifles with all manner of forearms on them. You custom builders are just scamming the client to make money by quibbling over half inch of forearm. I know how it works on customs; done it many times.
Also, we don't do cull hunting here in the US, except for prairie dogs. So burning your fingers on a deer rifle is impossible.
Remington 600? I think I will get another one. They work fine in spite of the non approved forearm ratio.

The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Have whatever f*cking length forend you want and anybody who doesn't like it can go f*ck themselves.

I'm with Duane 7 or 8 inches and lots wood left on the floor. lean and mean and very British or slightly Germanic. Short forends go with a barrel band swivel and keep the stock lower to the good earth and the barrel out of the trees and brush. I like the look, the feel and the way they handle. was raised with a 99, and a good horse, of course I like a small Schnable!!

I don't particularly like swivels and slings, They don't fit a saddle scabbard to my standards. I carry a length of soft cotton rope in my pocket in case I have to pack something on foot a ways, and its handy to tie quarters to my saddle. I shoot well with a shooting sling but I can always find a stump or rock, so I nix the swivels and slings for my hunting..

Its aggravating to jump a trophy and the gent flounders around like a cricket in a skillet while the big boy walks off. It happens a lot.