Getting back to an idea I had many moons ago...a 250gr 9.3 in a 284 case on a M96 Swedish Mauser....My question is, would the M96 be strong enough ??
I have a Carl Gustaf in 6.5 thats had very little use....already sporterised, not by me !!

Roger

That would depend on the type of powder and charge weight. As long as you stay inside the operating limits of the action you should be fine - 45,000 psi.

What Bob said; only if you keep pressure under 45K psi. If you want to make it a 55k psi round, get a 98. I know actions are hard to get in Australia so I know what you want to do.

I don't know anything about the M96. What is the weak point?

The math suggests that since the 284 has a rebated (0.473) rim behind a 0.501 base, for any given pressure, the actual bolt thrust would be 10-12 % higher than standard cartridges with a 0.473 rim.

The 9.3x57 is a very good cartridge and can do a lot. I have one build my Husky and it's impressive. The weak point on a M96 is for one it's a small ring Mauser and for two it doesn't have the third safety lug that the 98 has.

As there is no load data for a 9.3-284, I suppose the usual rules of pressure apply, flattened primers and sticky extraction , are the only things I will have to indicate high pressure.....please add comments here...
Like the majority of my builds, I have an action and plentiful brass....my usual reason for a build !!

Roger

The SAAMI Max pressure for the .284 is 64,000 psi. You would pass the Swede's limits far before you saw any signs. 64K would be a heavy proof load for the Swede, not a steady diet. I'd vote for the 9.3 x 57.

quote:

Originally posted by yumastepside:
As there is no load data for a 9.3-284, I suppose the usual rules of pressure apply, flattened primers and sticky extraction , are the only things I will have to indicate high pressure.....please add comments here...
Like the majority of my builds, I have an action and plentiful brass....my usual reason for a build !!

Roger

Ok, back up. There are computer programs that will give you pressure figures; Quick load might be one; I do not have any. You do have to be careful with using the usual pressure signs hand loaders use because once the primer gets flat and the brass gets hard to extract you have already greatly exceeded the 45K limit.
As for why we want to limit the Swede's pressure; it it not due to the fact that it is a 1.3 inch ring action, nor because it does not have a safety lug; it is because they were made from low carbon steel and were not intended for higher pressure. Also, they don't have the inner ring like the 98 does, but neither do any modern action; but we make everything now from heat treated 4140 steel. None of our modern bolt actions have 1.4 inch OD rings; most are about 1.35 or so. The Swede barrel OD is .980 and are made from very good steel; still, treat them more gently than a 98.
If the 96 swede was made from CM steel, you could go to 65K psi and not think twice about it.
Some M96s have been used for higher pressure cartridges but we don't recommend taking a chance.
Back thrust on the bolt: easy to calculate; we don't care about the OD of the cartridge base; physics doesn't care; pressure inside the case creates force both radially and axially; only the force that is calculated from the INSiDE of the case ID, can be used for the axial, backwards, thrust on the bolt face. OD of the case base is immaterial. But, true, it will be greater as the case gets bigger.

Now, the 96 series are actually very well made and strong actions; the Swedes thought they were so good that they never made a 98; Husqvarna bought them from FN when they thought they needed one.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Now, the 96 series are actually very well made and strong actions; the Swedes thought they were so good that they never made a 98; Husqvarna bought them from FN when they thought they needed one.

What do you think about when Kimber, I believe, made rifles using the M96 actions into some very modern higher pressure cartridge then what the M96 was rated for? I see they didn't do it for long.

quote:

Originally posted by shootermetal:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Now, the 96 series are actually very well made and strong actions; the Swedes thought they were so good that they never made a 98; Husqvarna bought them from FN when they thought they needed one.

What do you think about when Kimber, I believe, made rifles using the M96 actions into some very modern higher pressure cartridge then what the M96 was rated for? I see they didn't do it for long.

Kimber did them in 22-250, .243,7mm-08 and
.308, besides leaving them 6.5x55 and just recontouring the original barrels.

I have a 6.5 x 55 and it's a wonderful shooter.

I do remember reading about lug setback in some of the others, but this is going back over 20 years.

You are correct, they didn't last long.

Neither did that iteration of Kimber.

Many many years ago Jim Carmichel said he would never build a 98 Mauser action with a modern chambering (he mentioned the 243 for an example) because of the higher pressure. Can't remember whatelse he said to do.

He was wrong; unless he was only talking about a few 1909 Argentines that were soft; suitable only for 7.65 ammo.

I have a split 96 receiver in the shop from a slack jawed yocal who ran his loads too hot. The front ring will balloon, and crack.

"Pressure signs" are a bunch of BS and people shouldn't use them. I've run loads through my pressure test rifle with 50k pressure that have completely flattened primers and look way over pressure, and 80k that look like factory winchester white box. There are so many variables involved, it isn't even a good rule of thumb.

Swede's are fantastic rifles, and for the money it is cheap and easy to pickup a 96 or 98 in 9.3. I bought a sweet Husky M 46 in 9.3x57 and a little rougher 146? that I punched out to 9.3x62.

I can't imagine the benefit of going with a 284 case over the overly abundant 9.3x62 other than a significant amount of effort just to be different. Which... hey, is most of the reason why half the cartridges and rifles out there exist.

Fal, it's not always about being different...here in Oz you can't just go out and buy a Husky from your corner gunshop, these things simply don't exist here or are too expensive to buy...to import even just an action from the States starts at $1000! not including the cost of the action.
My justification for this combination is simply that I have a '96 action and an excess of 284 cases.
My original idea was to use some of my 6.5x55 Imp. cases blown out to 9.3...I was trying to use cases that I have instead of having to buy more cases. My intent is to build a short range thumper from existing components.

Roger

Why not use the .284 brass to barter for some more 6.5 brass?

quote:

Originally posted by yumastepside:
Fal, it's not always about being different...here in Oz you can't just go out and buy a Husky from your corner gunshop, these things simply don't exist here or are too expensive to buy...to import even just an action from the States starts at $1000! not including the cost of the action.
My justification for this combination is simply that I have a '96 action and an excess of 284 cases.
My original idea was to use some of my 6.5x55 Imp. cases blown out to 9.3...I was trying to use cases that I have instead of having to buy more cases. My intent is to build a short range thumper from existing components.

Roger

Sorry, I also have plenty of 6.5 Imp. brass, thats why it was my original choice...maybe I should go with the 6.5 brass blown out....right idea, wrong vehicle ??

Roger

quote:

Originally posted by yumastepside:
Fal, it's not always about being different...here in Oz you can't just go out and buy a Husky from your corner gunshop, these things simply don't exist here or are too expensive to buy...to import even just an action from the States starts at $1000! not including the cost of the action.
My justification for this combination is simply that I have a '96 action and an excess of 284 cases.
My original idea was to use some of my 6.5x55 Imp. cases blown out to 9.3...I was trying to use cases that I have instead of having to buy more cases. My intent is to build a short range thumper from existing components.

Roger

I completely glossed over your location when reading your post. Being at the bottom of the world does have it's draw back in that regard.

I have made lots of 9x57 and 9.3x57 brass from 8x57, which is cheap and readily available, I would think even in Australia?

I really don't think you would go wrong with a 9.3x57, with modern loads you can make it a thumper short range gun.

Here is an old thread from a different forum:

https://www.africahunting.com/.../9-3x57.35811/page-4

I have a Husky M146 that was a 9.3x57 before I had dpcd rechamber to x92.

Forming 9.3x57 from 8x57 was a breeze.

As far as a load I got over 2400 fps. with 285gr. Privis and 270gr. Speers using I4064.

Never shot anything with it but it let me know when I fired it.

Hip

Yes I rechambered it to 9.3X92; now that is a long, hot cartridge.

The M146 is a '98 not a '96....

Roger

quote:

Originally posted by yumastepside:
The M146 is a '98 not a '96....

Roger

Yes, I realize that. I was just pointing out that the 9.3x57 was not a round to sneeze at.

Hip

It easily handled the 9.3x92 case too.

Just checked local cost of 50 cases...$30 to $60 for 8x57...more than double that for 9.3x57...maybe its time to buy some new brass....

Roger

Tough crowd tonight. You guys are all business. Can't even get a chuckle.
9.3x92!

Sorry Tom, didn't even notice

Roger

Had a friend who passed 20 years ago he had a fetish for 9.3 and 6.5 . He did two mosin`s one in 6.5 x 54R and one in 9.3 x54R. But he also had two swede 96`s he did in 6.5 x 284 and 9.3 x 284. And did a few swedes for his 2 brothers in 6.5 x284. So it has been done he was a good old boy from carolina living here in ak and had alot of contact with norma before the 6.5 norma came to be , he was using a pressure trace system on his barrels after first taking pressure results from a standard swede barrel using regular 6.5 x 55 ammo. If you hand load just be safe. His 16 inch barreled 6.5 x 284 swede was super accurate and a joy to shoot .He liked his hunting rifles short. Aaron in AK

I would not waste my money on a mod 96 Mauser, and certainly not on a loaded down 9,3x62. the 9.3x62 as it stands could use a bit more powder IMO so to use the 320 gr Woodleigh and 300 gr swift for instance..Just my opine.based on using the 9,3x62 on large animals..

SAme applies to a 9,3x284 or 308. Just not a good project.

I found some load data for the 35 Whelen with 220, 225 and 250 grain bullets with pressures between 44 and 50,O00 PSI....could be a good starting point for the 284 case ??
...or the 9.3x53r, a similar size case at 44k PSI ?

Roger

quote:

Originally posted by yumastepside:
The M146 is a '98 not a '96....

Roger

But the Husky M46AN is a 96 and was factory chambered in 9,3x62.

6.5x55 improved necked up to 9,3 would have very similar capacity.

I have a 375/284 on a 1910 mex action. I dont load it hot, and it still has plenty of snot.
you are an experienced hand loader Roger, you could work up loads that would be safe.
Somewhere around I have a 9.3x57 reamer if you decide to go that route.

Thanks Tony, I think I'll stick with the 284 case. As I said previously, I have nearly all the bits, loading dies, cases, etc, all I really need is a barrel.
One question...what did you use to increase the neck from 7mm to 9.5 ?

Roger

My C&H dies came with a tapered expander. Worked great.
I also have a pile of old yellow box win 284 ammo, that came out of the FN factory when they moved. $2.00 a box back then, as there was so much the fellow wanted to get rid of it.
I just fireformed some by shooting it. Accuracy was quite poor.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
What Bob said; only if you keep pressure under 45K psi. If you want to make it a 55k psi round, get a 98. I know actions are hard to get in Australia so I know what you want to do.

While primers and American powders have been tricky lately, it's never occurred to me that Mauser 98 actions were all that hard to find. I don't suppose the average 'smith keeps 200, though

98's aren't that hard to find, its that they are ridiculous prices or you would have to destroy a vintage military rifle to get the action.....In my case its a matter of using what I have. Even if I had a 55k PSI action to use, I don't need another full house 9.3....I already have enough heavy calibres I can use, I would prefer a nice little " spud thrower ", short barrel, full wood scrub gun.

Roger

How about taking a Mosin-Nagant and creating a 9.3x53 wildcat? That would be a little thumper. For that matter, you could create a 9.3x54 Swede using 6.5x55 or 7.5x54 brass on the Swede action. Save your .284 brass or trade it for something practical.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
How about taking a Mosin-Nagant and creating a 9.3x53 wildcat? That would be a little thumper. For that matter, you could create a 9.3x54 Swede using 6.5x55 or 7.5x54 brass on the Swede action. Save your .284 brass or trade it for something practical.

'

A poster named Grenadier did just that. He has posted about it here and a couple other sites.

The Mosin I'm talking about.

Pretty cool round.

Hip