ive been collecting parts and pieces for awhile for this project. i want a 458 wm short barrel,{20 or under} bolt gun that will be reliable and fairly lightweight to carry.

here is my questions, i have a win mod 70 xtr in 338wm. i dont really like the looks of the small extractor on this roundfeed bolt. will it be usefull with the bigger straightwall case and function well for extraction? ame i better off to have this current barrel rebored as i like the lite weight barrel it already posess.

my other chouce is a ruger hawkeye that i really like the mouser style extractor but want the feeding to be flawless as well. i have a ruger barrel that i want to have turned down to the profile of the current ruger barrel so as to get that liteweight short 458 i been dreaming of.

which setup would you guys use for this project? i want to either send the winchester off for a rebore or,,,thread the ruger with the 458 barrel that i have but have it turned down for the profile....thoughts???

There's lots to consider within your post. I was just boxing up my 458 WM Ruger barreled action to send to a gunsmith for installation of a front sight. I went through a lot of thought over my project, so hopefully that will be useful to you.

Obviously we share the same goal to have a 458 for use in bush whacking Alaska. That keeps the variables simpler.

I'll give my opinion about the choice of action first. I chose a Ruger stainless 77 MKII because that's what I had, and it works really well, but I think the Winchester action you have would be great too - assuming it has a magnum bolt face already. Apparantly it's push feed, and you are worried about the extractor. IMO, the push feed Winchester action is a good action, and I wouldn't worry about the adequacy of the extractor at all. You have a good prediciment, because IMO you will be happy with the outcome with either action you choose.

My choices were 20" barrel with a twist rate of one in twenty inches. It's a PacNor #5 stainless. On my rifle, I wanted to experiment a little, and technically it's a wildcat, although I use standard 458WM brass and dies. I had PacNor cut the chamber seperate from the throat, (458 no throat) and then with a throat reamer, cut what's basically a 45-70 throat. The difference is length. 45-70 is short, and 458WM has a long throat. I had PacNor stamp "Short Throat" boldly on the barrel.

It's important to know that 500gr factory ammo will not chamber in my rifle. The bolt won't close. That's the way I intended it to be. I haven't tried the Fed 400gr stuff. So, I handload only, using 350gr bullets, and some 400 gr bullets. There is very little room between the bullet and contact with the rifling. It's so short that with the 350gr Barnes TSX for example, that I've trimmed the brass back just a little shorter than trim-to length, and crimp with a lee crimper die in the last groove, to make sure the OAL cartridge will chamber easily.

Thus far, my favorite load is 70grs of H4895 over any of the 350gr bullets, but especially the TSX. That load gives about 2250fps. 70 to 71 grs of H4198 or RL7 gives more velocity, and excellent accuracy too.

I do not know whether my rifle is more accurate than a quality built 458 with a standard SAAMI chamber and throat, but I do know that such a rifle would have to be very accurate to shoot more accurately than the one I have. I can't say for sure that the short throat is a good idea for everyone, but I like it, since I have no intention of using factory ammo, and the max bullet weight I'll use is 400gr. But if one is not very careful with handloads, this short throat will cause trouble, since it's forgiving only by a few thousandths in OAL.

My initial idea was to make the ballistic equivilent of a bolt action 45-70. But now that I have the rifle, it's apparant that it will easily achieve more velocity than a 45-70, and still at low pressure - so why not?

Anyway, your short and light is a good idea for Alaska. About weight, there is such a thing as too light with a 458. I chose a #5 barrel for several reasons. One is because I wanted a little bit of weight out there, since the barrel is short anyway, and I wanted enough metal so that drilling a hole for the front sight is easier for the gunsmith. I don't like any kind of barrel band, since they require the barrel to be heated.

I put the barreled action in a Hogue stock, which is working well, but I'm thinking of getting another Hogue stock, with the full aluminum block inside, because it's stiffer, and less likely to suffer damage from recoil, and also because it will add a few ounces out there in the forearm. I'm also thinking about replacing the factory recoil pad with something that isn't so mushy.

On thing about using the Winchester action is that it will be easier to attach a red dot scope or something like the Eotech, because they like the Weaver style bases. That's easy on the Winchester, and may require drilling holes on the Ruger. That's only an issue if you may want to use a red dot sight, and then only if you want one that doesn't use standard 1" or 30mm rings.

I'm going with the NECG sights, using the receiver sight for the rear, and a screw on front sight - not the banded sight base. I have looked at that rear sight a lot, and removed the appeture, and the little part that slids up and down, which leaves a nice U shape notch. I call it a ghost U, and I think it will serve the same purpose as a ghost ring. Installation of the rear sight rquires no gunsmith work, and it's just a matter of getting the proper height front sight installed.

The folks at Leupold tell me that they have plans to make a fixed 3X scope again, by the end of 2010. I plan on getting one, and alternate the use of the scope and the open sights, depending on the load I'll use and the occasion.

The recoil on my rifle busted a 1x4 Leupold shotgun scope, which I got back from repair yesterday. I don't plan on putting it back on the 458 except perhaps if I sight it in for some reduced loads.

Anyway, I hope my ramblings have helped you with your project.

Regards,
KB

kb,,, yep this is just the kinda feedback i am looking for. to be honest i am leaning towards the winchester as i also bought a hoag stock for it. i figure that if the extractor is tough enough,,,then the winchester is the natural choice as its already in 338 win mag so the rails and bolt face are already there for the 458. only thing i figure is that the rails will need some work as this will not have the bottleneck case to help with the feed. i already have a cz 550 in 458win mag but its like carrying a 2x4 plank and its pretty heavy as well. shoots nice but the feed is heck-n-by-golly. which i dont like and my confidence is already gone with the cz as ive had a bunch of failures to feed and i definetly dont want to wake up in the middle of the nite out in the boonys and first off wonder if my rifle is going to feed correctly.

the ruger hawkeye is already a boomer in 375 ruger and ive cut the barrel to 18-n-1/2 inch which is lite n easy to carry with the hoag stock on it from the factory. i hesitat to use the ruger as ive put some time in it already and the thing is the ritz as far as im concerned. should be good for the arctic hares up here if they start a rebellion.

just wanting reassurance on the winchester extractor as it looks very small and not at all like the long claw mouser im used to looking at.

thanks for the reply and i look forward to more of the same.

Ted

I happen to like the Winchester push feed action, regardless of what it's chambered in, but that's just one opinion, and others may feel differently. I think the extractor is much better than a Remington, and as good as a Sako.

Seems to me that you are making a good choice. Checking the feeding should be easy, just try it. Of course the cartridge won't go all the way, but you should be able to tell if it comes off the rails nicely, and centers in the breach. Just push them gently so they don't jam in the chamber. Be sure to try the whole magazine. My bet is that it will not need to be modified at all.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your project. Sounds interesting to me.

KB

oh man i nearly messed up! being ready to turn the winny 338 into my 458 project,,,i took my reloads and some factory shells laying around out to burn befor i didnt have a rifle to shoot em in. wowww am i glad i took a couple targets with me. this winchester flat out shoots !!! i get 3 that are in one raged hole every time i do my part. not bad with these ol peepers. the factory loads go into 1.5 inch which aint bad either.

so back to the bench for some serious thought about what to do now. the ruger is the choice but i got $ wrapped up already in it. well the perdicament continues so ill lay low awhile before i jump into something that ill regret later.

thing that puzzels is that the winchester had rust in the muzzle when i bought her and after scrubbing it out i did the shooting and when i ran a patch thru the bore from the breech...it tightened up every time at the muzzle. not that im complaining as this rifle shoots so well that i can hardly get around re-boring such a shooter. any thoughts as to why the barrel shoots so well with this tight spot at the muzzle?? its the spot that i scrubbed the rust off of...go figure...i thought it would have been lose rather then tight. hense my surprise at the accuracy. do you think that this is something that is going to go away soon?? the accuracy i mean?

Find a ruger stainless 77mkii and rebarrel --

My two favorite 458's, out of many I have owned, have been push feed,22" barrel M70 Winchesters. I sold the first one and after regretting it for several years, found a replacement at Champlins. I have never had a problem with extraction, although I am a big fan of the Mauser type extractor.
One thing to think about, Mr. Agaard (sp?) is shown carrying the same push feed M70 in many pictures of him while he was a PH. Seems to me if someone like that had faith in it, that is a pretty good recommendation.