hi
I own an all weather ruger mk77 rifle in 3006(the new models with non skeleton stock) and i wonder which kind of stainless steel and att which hardness the receiver and and barrel is made. why ruger dosen't have a mail adress?
regards
yes

Years ago there was an article about Ruger in the American Rifleman which gave some details.But somewhere recently I saw IIRC info that they don't use a standard stainless steel.A standard steel would be 416 for both barrel and action .

They dont use a standard steel for the actions. They are investment cast and they have to use a steel with special mix alloys. It is probally steel they had strictly for the designed purpose. As for the barrels I have no idea.

skog

I would think it quite likely that Ruger uses their IC 416 alloy to cast the receivers, see:Ruger Steel Alloy Properties. IC 416 is the "investment-castable" equivalent of 416, which is a martensitic stainless (ie can be hardened by quenching and then tempered) with free-machining qualities derived from added sulphur.

hi
I have heard that ryger only uses 416 steel for their rimfire guns and 15-5 for thier center fire rifles and six guns. sadly it is not possible to verify it. while 15-5 is an excellent steel the 416 is a real junk. it is difficult to repair , drilling holes or any altering unless one is sure about the kind of steel used and surface hardness. i wish ruger could give some data about the guns for gunsmiths around world.
regards
yes

You can have a metallurgical analysis done. There are folks that do a spectragraphical analysis that can tell you just what the metal is.

Yes, Optical Emission Spectrography will give a very accurate analysis. It works by striking a spark using an electrode, and analysing the spectrum of light produced. It is some years since I've driven an OES, but unless things have changed the main limitations are that the size of test piece is restricted by the dimensions of the spark chamber.

It does leave a mark from the spark too. The mark is fairly superficial but it would definitely mar an exposed surface. If you can deal with those limitations though it is very quick and shouldn't be very expensive.

There are other means of analysis around too, from old fashioned wet chemistry (which needs a fair bit of sample and costs more for each element) and others which require fairly expensive gear and lab time. How badly do you want to know?

Hardness testing on the other hand is simple. Any number of places have Rockwell testers, and there'd have to be a fair few Vickers machines too. Each will make a small pinprick mark, but it is small enough to barely be noticeable and can be placed somewhere inconspicuous. These tests take a matter of minutes to perform and shouldn't cost much.

hi
yes every thing is possible , but the cost of chemical analise and going to a workshop and asking for hardness test may cost more than the ½ of my gun value . i wonder if it wasn't better that ruger could give som technical data about their products.
regards
yes

Are we speaking of investment cast SS ?. 17/4 custom proprietary !.

Ruger is off Air Port Rd.on Ruger Blvd. I believe that's the street name . It's between Chino Valley and Prescott AZ. . I shall have my Brother inquire on his way to or from work as to whom to contact for public info !. Give me a few days .

Why is it you wish to know what type of SS your rifle is made from ?. Just curious is all . ...

Dr K
I am living in scandinavia and during winter time vi may have temprature far below zero -30 grade celsius and even more. steel brittelness could be of great concern as we have seen sako and tikka had problem with their ss rifles.
regards
yes

quote:

Originally posted by yes:
Dr K
I am living in scandinavia and during winter time vi may have temprature far below zero -30 grade celsius and even more. steel brittelness could be of great concern as we have seen sako and tikka had problem with their ss rifles.
regards
yes

yes, can you be more specific about the steel problems.
bigbull

hi
well generally stainless steels are more prone to cold brittleness and low quality like 416R(high sulfur fri machining kinds are even worse than general) ss alloys with a few % nickel or molibdenium have better cold resistance,and even normal cr mo or cr ni like 4140 or 4340 are far better.
regards
yes

" YES " . Ruger's mailing address is as follows . 200 Ruger Rd. Presscott AZ. 86301-6150 .

Phone USA Country code then 928-778-6555

If it's a problem time wise or other wise contacting them post back and I'll attempt to find out what you need to know .

Can't promise they will tell me anything such as composition of metal though . Company's can be pretty tight lipped when it comes to revealing trade secrets . I'm sure you can understand that. They might tell me what it's not !?.

Shot straight know your target ...

hi Dr K
when it is day in USA it is night here and when it is night in usa it is day here , all I want to know is if any part of my ruger ALL weather which is according to the serial number has been made in 2004 is made of fri machining stainless steel(416R) that i can change it . i don't like the idea of fri machining steel at very low temprature . if the receiver or barrel are made of 416 then i'll swap the gun with another ruger in CR MO made of 4140 steel for using in much sub zero temprature of scandinavia in winter time. if you can reach them please ask them about this matter.
regards
yes

416 is not "low quality" no more than the rifle ACTUALLY being made from gold... gold owuld be an exceedingly poor choice to make a high pressure firearm from, as it would rupture on firing, if held to a man portable weight.

That you would prefer a different steel is fine. Call ruger, as them dead out "do you make the barrel or receiver from 416" and MOVE ON

j

Yes . How cold ?? The 416R made by www.crucibleservice.com is good to -40 F [-40 C] .If you hunt at colder temperatures you're crazy !!

hej mete
only -40 degree it sounds like spring not winter . crucibles have much better steels than 416R actually the only advantage of 416 is easy machining nothing else.
Hi jeffeso
i have worked in swedish big workshop (quality control and ultra sound checking of steel products) and had the oportunity to see the different steel cristals under microscope. please don't compare 416R screw steel with gold a plain 410 would be hundred times better choice than 416R. i would pay a 100 buck more for a gun with a better steel instead of buying low quality at low price. i hope gun makers do offer better steel in reasonable higher prices insteas of making only one quality rifles .
regards
yes

I don't think 416 is "low quality". Like any steel it is a compromise and suited to some applications not others. It has the ability to be heat treated for pretty good hardness and strength, has fair resistance to corrosion and erosion and can be produced at an economically viable price. The added sulphur means it machines well, but does rather compromise toughness - a trade-off. There are better materials around, at a price, and materials which are better in some areas but at the expense of others. For most purposes for firearms 416 does a pretty good job.

I have to say though that -40 C is a pretty extreme service environment, and there be few ordinary steels that will not have dramatically reduced toughness at that temperature. Here in Oz it is the middle of winter, and where I am on the coldest nights it might get down below 10 C, which is quite cold enough .

FWIW A nice fine-grained 4340 forging typically has a ductile-brittle temperature lower than - 40C though.

quote:

Originally posted by yes:
Dr K
I am living in scandinavia and during winter time vi may have temprature far below zero -30 grade celsius and even more. steel brittelness could be of great concern as we have seen sako and tikka had problem with their ss rifles.
regards
yes

My Ruger M77mkII Stainless 338 Wm. shoots just fine @-45deg F. You will not have a problem with the Steel. Oil or grease in the firing pin bore will be more of a concern.
Good luck

Hi Dan
when you are talking about 4340(a chromium. mo . nickel alloy) . you are talking about a very different steel 4340 makes one of the best choice for making action and 416r for making screws . i am sure Ruger uses somewhat better steel in the big game rifles,. they may use it(416R) in their line of rimfire actions. 2 years ago we had -30to 37 at more than a mounth during winter time. i didn't use my stainless gun for shooting because i didn't know which kind of steel was in the gun. an action in 17-4 pch can mange this temorature,but i doubt if 416R can.there are companies making both barrels and actions of 17-4 stainless steel.
regards
yes

Yes, I know 4340 is different, that is why I mentioned it 4340 does a very good job, and in a fine-grained forging is exceptionally tough even at those low temperatures. Of course it doesn't have quite the corrosion resistance of the stainless (which isn't that great in 416 anyway), but modern finishing techniques can fix that.

Like you I wouldn't want to use 416 at those extreme temperatures. Its ductile-brittle transition temperature is nowhere near low enough. I don't think I'd trust 17-4PH either, but who makes actions and barrels from that?

It is only theoretical for me anyway - even in midwinter in the Australian Alps my rifles are not going to get to a temperature much below freezing Here they have to cope with going from the moist coast to the dry outback, and the dust and heat (and sweat), not subzero temperatures.

" Yes " . It's not 416 R but it is how ever a 400 series of SS which is a priority blend . They are reluctant to say any more than that .

I'll only add this - 40 C. is far to cold to be out in in the first place !.Let alone hunting in .
Good luck P S don't put your lips on any metal at those temps. !.

Hi Dr K
thanks.the 410 serie or any of those none sulfuriesed fri machining steels like 416 are great choice. i am sure the guys at ruger know about metalurgy. i love the balance and handling of my ruger 77 and accuracy is great. the first serie i shot was with norma jaktmatch 150 grain at home range about and at 45 yds made only one hole for the cold days i'll use my old husky 6,5x55 and rainy days my ruger all weather.
regards
yes

quote:

an action in 17-4 pch can mange this temorature,but i doubt if 416R can.there are companies making both barrels and actions of 17-4 stainless steel.

Believe me, you do not want 2 sliding parts that touch each other in a rifle made of 17-4. You can check its galling characteristics on the web and you will find it deserves the name Gall-O-Matic.
If 17-4 is really clean it will stick to itself and many other metals under very little pressure. On the other hand Nitronic 60 is very difficult to gall.
Just ask Ruger if it is ok to use their stainless rifles at -40° (either C or F)
Of course the synthetic stock might not take it either. The plastic shrinks must faster than steel.

hi
do you beleive 416R has better galling characteristic than 17.4?
is nitronic hardenable?. galling occurs worst when two sliding parts are of same material and have same hardness. it is why often bolt and receiver have not the same hardness.
yes

quote:

galling occurs worst when two sliding parts are of same material and have same hardness. it is why often bolt and receiver have not the same hardness.

That is true but 17-4 against 17-4 is going to gall even when the hardness is different.

Ruger uses steel that is bulky and ugly-looking.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Ruger uses steel that is bulky and ugly-looking.

Just think how much bulk they could save if only they would switch over to using a short section of threaded pipe w/ a barrel screwed in. Then they could stick a bolt in the other end and hang a trigger on it to have a nice slim and trim "pipe in a stock".

By the way, have any of you guys ever tried drilling, tapping or machining a Ruger receiver. I recently installed ghost ring sights on two mkII receivers. The 338WM was just doable, but the 350RM was so insanely hard that it required carbide. The CZ550, the M700 and the M70 are like soft butter compared to the Ruger.

GVA

17/4 is an investment casting SS . Golf club heads are also made from that type SS .

I will recheck about Ruger using that in pistol castings . I may be mistaken or just flat wrong on that one .

The 400 series I'm not because . I called and talked to my friend who has a friend who works at Ruger making the rifles . He's a machinist so I figure they know what they're talking about one that subject .

Shot Straight know your target !. ...

hi
ruger is using 465 steel in som of their sixguns,but when it is about receiver and bolts and barrels in all- weather centerfire rifles. it is still a mitery. i don't beleive you need extra strong tools for drilling on 416R which is easy to machin!!!. i hope some day i'll know the real composition of their stailess steel and surface hardness on receiver and barrels ,because it makes all working on these rifles easier.
regards
yes

quote:

Posted Jul 12, 8:43 PM Hide Post
17/4 is an investment casting SS .

Many stainless steels are cast. 17-4's main characteristic is it's relatively high strength.
AKA 17-4PH for precipitation hardening it is used for shotgun choke tubes too.
In the places where I have worked a lot more of it was used in for parts machined out of bar stock. Lots of orthopedic surgical "tools" are made from it.

hi
you coulden't answer to my question about ruger's steel. montana rifleman says they use AIAI 415 ss steel, but i can't find any thing about this kind of steel . can you tell me the chemical composition of AISI415?
regards
yes

YES,
I think AISI 415 is an error. I would guess the barrel of your stainless rifle is 416 or something very similar.

Carpenter Steel does not list AISI 415 and I have never heard of it.
Carpenter Steel

Isn't that F6NM (or CA6NM as a casting)? That would, if true, answer the question of low-temperature toughness for you: the addition of about 4% Ni and about 0.5%Mo to your basic 13% Cr martensitic stainless lowers ductile-brittle transition temperature markedly.