I have been asked to do some milling on a scope mount base that has been welded onto the receiver! This is the rear mount but still. It might not be dangerous but to me it is a no-no and I don't want to be seen to be condoning this sort of thing by touching that rifle. It is in poor condition, anyway, with a broken stock and rusted bore. I told the guy that no gunsmith would touch that rifle. Trouble is, he is a friend and has been good to me!

Ouch, the friend part makes it touchy...

I might tell him "look, you are a great mate, and this ia pretty dicey bit... I don't really want to risk all my life's work on your survivor's suing me bloodless...."

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Ouch, the friend part makes it touchy...

Especially since it was he and his sons that gifted me my 303-25! I am going to see him today to try to talk him out of it.

If he's THAT good a friend, make him the gift of a replacement action ... is probably worth the potential damage!

Some one more knowledgeable may come on board, in the meantime I've read where actions are lenghtened / shortened by cutting and re-welding. I also read adds where the mounts etc are welded on. If any harm has been done it happened during the welding., milling off the back base shouldn't be a problem as long as your "friend" is aware of your concerns and still wants to go ahead. John 303.

If I may suggest a perfectly acceptable alternative to " Welding " for future reference a top quality Epoxy .

I have mounted bases on collectible military rifles in which I enjoy shooting but not at the risk of ruining .

Most people are unaware of how many different types of Epoxies there are and what

remarkable strength they possess . Literally hundreds of types an applications .

Unless you are talking about an Elephant gun with which your life depends upon for every day use ,

it works perfectly well . I have yet to shake my Zeiss lose from a .375 H&H which has been 10+ years now .

H&H came Express Leaf an will stay that way as it was never drilled for scope mount bases .


http://www.ellsworth.com/display/productdetail.html?productid=936&Tab=Products

I would suggest he have the action sent out and annealed and then rehardened. Tell him it's for safetys sake. If the gun is of that poor condition he will proably just end up hanging it on a wall. I have welded up (had welded up, I am a lousey welder!) several rear bridges without the least problems.

Thanks for all the replies! The welding job is a bad one and the base is skew. The stock is broken at the grip - the grain runs straight through instead of following the stock.

Well, when I got there today, he had already started 'fixing' the gun. It turns out that this gun belonged to a man who's son now needs to fire it over his grave for some ceremonial reasons. The stock was being glued and clamped and the missing scope ring bits being made from modified other scope ring parts and ...... Oh My Hat! I got landed with fixing the scope rings.
Oh, the bore had been cleaned with a spinning brush something or the other on a hand drill. The bore looked surprisingly shiny!
I just hope the stock doesn't break when the son fires the gun at his father's graveside! Oh My Hat!

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If I may suggest a perfectly acceptable alternative to " Welding " for future reference a top quality Epoxy .

Done that! But I did not think of it this time and did not know epoxies came strong enough. Now that I know, I will most certainly suggest it.

I used epoxy twice, on my 22lr and my air rifle. I only have the 22lr now and it is still holding after 25 years. The air rifle never failed while I had it. I used the principal of mating curved surfaces. (After all, Renault used it to attach the side shafts to the diff in at least one of their models).
Would you be so kind as to suggest which epoxy I might try? So far, I have found 'Fast Fix' to be very strong and hard. (That is a two layer pack that one cuts a slice off and kneads together. It seems to stick to steel real well).

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That is a two layer pack that one cuts a slice off and kneads together. It seems to stick to steel real well

Heh Heh.
Like this?

-Spencer

I'd suggest taking some 5/16" wooded dowels and "turning some bullets" for this guy. Just pull 1/2 the powder from some factory loads and stick them in.

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Heh Heh.
Like this?

Yes, that's the kind of thing.

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... wooded dowels and "turning some bullets" for this guy. Just pull 1/2 the powder from some factory loads and stick them in.

Good idea! I had thought of creating a load with a light bullet and really slow powder to make an appropriately impressive BOOM without breaking the stock at the 'repair'.

I have owned several Rigbys and Jefferies, among other makes, which had the telescope sight bases silver soldered on both the front and rear rings when I received them. (The front rings of some such were also cut with humongous dovetails into which the front mounts were soldered.) As I bought them used I have no idea whether Rigby's or Jefferies condoned that sort of thing, but I do know I shot them for years with no problems. They were well enough fitted they certainly LOOKED like original factory work.

One, a .303 British-chambered Mauser, came in the original Rigby oak & leather french-fitted case, complete with buffalo horn turnscrews, ball-bearing cleaning rod, elephant-ivory pill bottle with extra front sights, etc. The important thing is, the case fitting for the rifle itself was cut to contain the non-detachable scope as well as the rifle. so it must likely have been installed at the factory....silver solder and all.

That doesn't mean your friend's rifle will be safe, but it is often surprising what sort of physical mechanisms turn out to be both successful & safe in use.

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Originally posted by 303Guy:
I have been asked to do some milling on a scope mount base that has been welded onto the receiver! This is the rear mount but still. It might not be dangerous but to me it is a no-no and I don't want to be seen to be condoning this sort of thing by touching that rifle. It is in poor condition, anyway, with a broken stock and rusted bore. I told the guy that no gunsmith would touch that rifle. Trouble is, he is a friend and has been good to me!

I guess if it was a rear locking action I would be concerned more. I have owned several P14 and 1917 Eddystones that have had a plug welded in the duck pond on the rear bridge, a couple were chambered in magnums and I shot thousands of rounds through them without a problem. Have also saw a couple Springfields that have been brazed on the feedrails, didn't seem to be a problem. .02

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some such were also cut with humongous dovetails into which the front mounts were soldered.)

Seen a lot of these, Mausers, done back in the day- acceptable at the time, obviously.

Square bridges are welded on the front and rear rings, with the proper procedures followed throughout, today.

A Spanish carbine, I believe was a '93 arsenal refit to the 7.62 round used in the CETME rifles has a rear sight welded to the bridge.

The rifle and situation described initially in this thread sounds like something to steer clear of

Are you not able to access this Link ?. If not I would be happy to recommend Epoxies .

http://www.ellsworth.com/display/productdetail.html?productid=936&Tab=Products


The one which appears on the above link is formidable , there are hundreds .

Simply click the left hand column " Adhesives " and it will whisk you away too Epoxy land .

Simply prepare surfaces by wiping acetone on the parts and receiver & barrel Etc.

Apply epoxy allow proper cure time , good to go for a long long time .

Personally I don't care for putty sticks or TV brand junk . Use Real quality correct epoxy

for real quality results . It's kind of like buying a top notch Rifle then putting a BSA scope on it ,

an Extremely BAD IDEA IMO .

I prefer Devcon ,Hysol, Lord ,3M , Also Loctite which makes more than thread sealants .

Sika Bostick CRL depending on ones adhesive needs .

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That doesn't mean your friend's rifle will be safe, but it is often surprising what sort of physical mechanisms turn out to be both successful & safe in use.

Actually, it is not the safety of the action I am worried about - it is the abuse of firearms. With this particular rifle, the danger in firing it lies in the stock breaking! I know that I could repair it safely but my friend has chosen to 'repair' it himself, so that is beyond my control. If the wood grain runs across the grip and has already failed and been 'glued' and failed again should be a warning to him. I wonder whether the recoiling, butt-less action might smack someone in the face?

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Personally I don't care for putty sticks or TV brand junk . Use Real quality correct epoxy for real quality results

Noted! Thanks.

Thanks for the link, Doc224/375, and the advice. Much appreciated! I think 3M, Loctite, Sika and Bostick as well as some others are available to me in my part of the world.

I don't have anything to add about fixing the rifle in question but I dislike firing bullets into the air for any reason.

I suggest building or buying blank cartridges for the ceremony, no recoil to worry about breaking the stock and no projectile flying off to God knows where either.

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... but I dislike firing bullets into the air for any reason.

I was thinking about that too! I'll suggest the blanks - good idea! Thanks. How does one build a blank? Pistol powder? Wax 'wad' or 'bullet' on top? Wax mixed with shot would give some weight.

(Mind you, wooden bullets won't come down too hard - as an alternative, depending on what is acceptable to these folks).

You might work up a fireforming load with cream of wheat packing held in with a little dacron or part of a cotton ball.


These can actually be pretty loud.

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... cream of wheat packing ...

What exactly is cream of wheat packing?

I have a sneaky suspicion that these guys will actually use this rifle! I am going to do the scope mount clamps properly using 4140 . I cannot help it if the welded on base is skew but I can make sure that the scope at least, does not break off. (That way, when the stock breaks, the scope will stop the rearward motion of the barrel and action - against his eyebrow! And it doesn't have a rubber eyebrow protection ring. ) I'll talk to him about that stock.

Sorry, Cream of Wheat is an American breakfast food ... a kind of cereal product mush made up with hot water. Is very much finer than oatmeal.

Sorry, I forgot you might not know what it is ... sort of like expecting an American to know about Vegemite

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Cream of Wheat is an American breakfast food

Aaahhh... A great puff of white smoke out the barrel! Cool! Thanks mstarling. I have some H4227/AR2205 to use as a propellant. You know, black powder would be cool - and loud!
I am thinking 'though, that because this will be a ceremonial firing, they might want the real thing. But I will put it to them anyway!